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Exact vs. non-exact Geminate

equal sign exact search

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#1 rlquey2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:24 AM

I couldn't figure out how what the distinguishing factor is between searching (in BHS):

???(=2)

and

=???(=2)

Thanks!
וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֤ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
Isa 53:5

#2 Helen Brown

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:35 AM

Comparing the Details: Analysis of the two searches shows you the difference. The first finds all the words that have a lemma in which the second and third characters are the same. The equal sign narrows the search to the verbs since it includes the vowel pointing. You did not specify any vowels, so only the unvowelled lemmas (the verbs) were found.
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#3 rlquey2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:15 AM

Oh, I guess I didn't realize that only verbs don't have vowels in the lemma. Thanks!
וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֤ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
Isa 53:5

#4 rlquey2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:25 AM

Actually, there's something else going on too. When I performed the following search:

???(=2)@-=???(=2)


Which seems to me should show the differences between the two searches, it came up with the attached results:
Attached File  geminate search.png   200.35KB   15 downloads

It shows that while many are nouns, there are also many verbs that are included in the non-exact search, but not the exact search. Why were these excluded from the exact search?

Thanks again

Edited by rlquey2, 12 January 2012 - 01:29 AM.

וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֤ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
Isa 53:5

#5 Helen Brown

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:10 AM

Hmm, interesting. Using the exact search seems to have also eliminated the verbs with homograph numbers. I am not sure what you actually want to find, but you can always do ???(=2)@[VERB] to find all the verbs.
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#6 rlquey2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:28 AM

There's nothing specific that I wanted to find, it's just that I'm trying to figure out some of the basic commands, such as the equal sign and the quote sign, so that I can use them with confidence during later studies; I studied Hebrew phonology/morphology this last semester, and found out how necessary it is to get a handle on these basic commands. It's hard to say anything definitive in a paper when I don't really know what kind of search I'm really doing! Basically, I'm trying to figure out these commands now so that I don't have to try to learn them when I'll need them most, in the middle of a semester, when things get more hectic. Thanks for your help!
וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֤ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
Isa 53:5

#7 rlquey2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:47 PM

So is there an explanation for why there are verbs in the search:

???(=2)@-=???(=2)

Thanks
וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֤ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
Isa 53:5

#8 Helen Brown

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:04 PM

There are verbs in there because you are excluding the results of the exact search, but that search did not find the verbs with homograph markers. So those verbs are left in when you remove the exact search from the non-exact search results.
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#9 David Lang

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:16 PM

Without the equals sign, Accordance ignores vowel points and homograph numbers, and finds any lemma with the consonants which have been entered.

An exact search (using the equals sign) also takes into consideration a lemma's (1) vowel points, and (2) homograph numbers.

Since =???(=2) has no vowel points or homograph numbers, it matches only verbs, since only verbal lemmas have no vowel points. However, this search does not find all verbs, since some verbs have homograph numbers, and this exact search excludes them.

Hope that helps.
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#10 rlquey2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:00 PM

Sorry about this, I feel like I'm just missing something obvious.

However, I don't understand why there are certain verbs that lack the homograph numbers. I sorted the analysis based on parts of speech then Lemma, and the verbs:

גנן
זכך
זמם
חמם
חפף
חצץ
טפף

etc.

still pop up, even though they lack the homograph numbers.

Thanks again

Attached Files


וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֤ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
Isa 53:5

#11 David Lang

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

Okay, I should have added a third criterion that an exact search considers: case, or in Hebrew, medial versus final forms. If you look at all your exceptions, they all end in final forms, which is not exactly the same as the second consonant.
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#12 rlquey2

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:06 PM

Oh, ok, that makes a lot of sense. Now that I look at it, I can't believe that I didn't pick up on that when I was typing the words in! Thanks for your help
וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֤ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
Isa 53:5




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