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ESV uses G0086 for Hades, but Mounce NT uses G0087... why?


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#1 Stuart Robertson

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:21 PM

After reading a recent Monday with Mounce blog post I did some searching for Hades. First searched ESV for 'hades', then hovered over 'hades' to see the underlying Greek "tag number" (Strongs #) -- which turned out to be G0086.

Then I ran a search in ESV for *@[KEY G0086] to find all places where the underlying Greek word appears. So far so good -- 10 results, 9 "Hades" and 1 "hell".

Next I switched the search text to HCSBS to see how they translated "hades". Also fine -- 10 results all translated as "Hades".

Switched search text to KJV and repeated the search. Still fine -- 10 results with 9 "hell" and one "grave" result.

Finally I switched search text to Mounce NT and re-ran the search. The results were not what I expected -- 3 results with 2 "troubled" and one "distressed". A little digging shows that the Mounce NT uses G0087 as the code for Hades.

I've been operating under the assumption that all tagged texts use the same "codes" (Strongs numbers) for tagging, but that assumption might be incorrect. Are all texts supposed to use a consistent single set of codes (in which case this is a bug in the text tagging) or do differing texts use differing code schemes (in which case it will be sad)?

Edited by Stuart Robertson, 01 February 2012 - 02:22 PM.


#2 Greg Terry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:38 PM

Someone more knowlegeable may have the correct answer but I suspect it has to do with Mounce & NIV using G/K numbers not Strongs as their tags. The two systems are different.
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#3 Greg Terry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:47 PM

Just confirmed that Greek key 86 is the same Greek word as G/K 87.

The NIDNTT is keyed to G/K numbers. If you happen to have that resource handy (or the abridged version), take a look in it.
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#4 Stuart Robertson

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:48 PM

Greg, thanks for the quick reply. It's good to understand a little better what's "going on". Unfortunate, though, that multiple "tagging" schemes exist but probably a good (legacy, likely) reason for the multiple schemes. Are there other coding schemes within Accordance for Greek? And, do Hebrew and/or Aramaic resources use Strongs only or a similar multiple-scheme system?

#5 sacha zemp

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:42 PM

As I see it we have basically 2 systems to tie english/spanish words in the bible to their counterparts in the original languages.
  • Strongs
  • G/K
The only english bible (to my knowledge) that is using G/K is the NIV. All other bibles use strongs. So any ressource like a dictionary has one or the other system. The NIDNTTA, for example uses G/K and is therefore more difficult to handle because it will not be possible to expand diretly from an english tagged bible like the ESV with strongs.

You just have to be careful, what you are buying.

Edited by sacha zemp, 01 February 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#6 Helen Brown

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:05 PM

MOUNCE-NT also uses the GK numbers. The reason for the system is that the original numbers by James Strong either left out or combined many words. The NAS taggers added in numbers with a and b, but that becomes unwieldy. Therefore Goodrick and Kohlenberger created their own complete set of numbers.

However, it's easy to mix the resources as most of the dictionaries that use GK numbers also show the original Strong's numbers, and you can use the original word to search them in any case, even if there are no numbers. Simply press option as you amplify from a keyed word to the dictionary and Accordance will look up the word. You can really ignore the numbers themselves.
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#7 Stuart Robertson

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

Ok, I understand now. Thank you to everyone for the answers. :-)




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