57 replies to this topic

[R. Mansfield]

I think one of the areas of my wish list would be for Accordance to continue to add to the journals that it has on offer. For example, I would love to see Themelios brought to the Accordance platform. I'd love to see BAR updated, but I know that has a lot to do with the publisher. I am a real sucker for journals!

What he said.

[Helen Brown]

Just a reminder that we do have crossgrades for some large items, courtesy of the publishers, and even offer an extra discount on other "crossgrades" of modules that you own and keep on another platform.

[mikes]

My story is quite similar to Ricks, with a little twist/add-on. I really like the following in Logos:

• Highlighting in Logos 4 is pretty amazing and customizable
• Personal Book Builder is unparalleled in its ability to add your own or others' content
• "Book" reading, with highlighting and notes is a rich, highly capable experience
• The "Discourse" ESV and GNT resources are unique to logos and a great way to look at the text

That said, there is *nothing* that compares to Accordance for searching the bible, digging into the text deep and wide and of course teaching prep. Absolutely nothing.

Logos is like an electronic reader that has bibles too that bolts on these other tools and functions. It's trying to take the book reading experience and add "tools" to enhance the experience.

Accordance has a philosophy that makes the product able to do what takes Logos 5+ tools (e.g. Bible Word Study, Search, Graph Search Results, Passage Lists, and more) to do with one "tab" in Accordance.

If you've been around a long time, I liken Logos to the old "Gopher" search, and think of Accordance as Google compared to Logos/Gopher.

That said, and this is a very personal opinion, I think Accordance has kept user content creation (currently User Notes, User Tools, User Bibles and Highlighting) to the side for WAY too long. They need to invest in this area as a top priority. The core of reading and searching and helping to drive creative and wonderful ideas, but it's way to hard to do that in the tool. I was hopeful for a while a few years ago when they did a few nice things with User Tools, but that momentum disappeared and we've been told outright it's not a priority. <sigh> For this reason, I don't buy commentaries in Accordance any more.. ever. I use Logos for commentaries and books, and Accordance for texts and their tightly integrated resources. I do this because I can engage with the Commentaries, link easily, edit easily, highlight the way I want to highlight, not end up with some hideous mix of patterns and colors that I have to print a legend to remember.</sigh>

Edited by mikes, 24 February 2012 - 09:06 PM.

[Mark Nigro]

My experience is nearly identical to Rick Mansfield's, except that recently I decided to sell my entire Logos package and invest that money further into my Accordance library, which was really the only library I had been using to get my serious studies done. The UI in Logos for me was just too cumbersome and limited, not to mention painfully slow and resource demanding, so much so that I rarely even opened my huge Logos Platinum library. I finally sold it last month, paid the license transfer fee ($25.00), and am on my way to more resources in the only tool I use, Accordance. This is an option for those of you who have regrets about a prior investment in Logos and wish to use Accordance solely. Logos isn't terrible, and they have brought some innovative ideas to the table, but I am spoiled rotten as an Accordance user, and ever so happy to be.

[Greg Terry]

Can you expound on this a little more Mr. Terry for us new guys and gals?

I'll try.

There really isn't what I would call a real library management feature in Logos. Some Logos resources may have hundreds of title, e.g. Perseus, If there are individual titles you don't want or need, there are two choices: 1) "Hide" each title you do not wish to see. This is a laborious, multi-step process that is limited to working with no more than 10 titles at a time. 2) Have the resource (with all its titles) removed from your license by contacting Logos customer support (which took over 10 days in my case). If you wish to have that title again later on, you must go through the "purchase" process and download again.

In Accordance, I can remove single or multiple title from my library (with no need for any other interaction) using the Library window. Clicking or dragging a loop over multiple titles and with the press of a key they are removed from Accordance. Here is a major difference n Accordance: those title are still present on my computer. If I wish to use them at some future date, no downloading is needed, just add them back to the Library from their location on my computer using the Library window. Simple!

I have a minimal investment in Logos files and I will admit there are some titles I would like to have that only they have for sale. But the overall user experience is much much better in Accordance. Every time I think I might try to use Logos for something, I end up getting pretty frustrated. It is just too slow - compared to the lightning fast Accordance program. I get WAY more study done in Accordance and do it much more efficiently.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Bob Deacon]

As mentioned in another thread, I have both programs. While I am NOT a scholar and I am NOT familiar with the original languages and I DO NOT use Accordance or Logos for that type of study I primarily use Accordance for ALL of my personal studies, devotions and sermon prep work. I primarily use Logos as many have already said "a book reader". I have numerous Logos titles of Dr. John MacArthur's that I read and I also have used "The Bible Exposition Commentary" which I have found to be helpful.

I made the switch not long after buying my first Mac two and a half years ago. I have been a Logos user for probably 4 or 5 years. I upgraded to Logos 4 on the Mac and while there are definitely things about its UI that I like and the ability to make notes on a particular word, verse or section of Scripture (Accordance allows for verse and Scripture section as well, just NOT a particular word) I have found Logos whether on Windows or Mac to be incredibly SLOW booting up, I have continual sync problems, and it lags as you input information.

The process from the introduction of Logos 4 until today has seen progress BUT the slowness and instability that I have experienced has given me great concern and a refusal to make any other purchases. I don't think my package would be sellable since I do not possess one of the bigger packages so I continue to use it as a book reader primarily. I am VERY DISAPPOINTED in Logos and it is difficult for me not to complain and whine since I do have a substantial investment BUT I am currently looking anxiously for additional titles to be made available in Accordance (HCSB Study Bible?).

Another item I would like to mention which has also already been mentioned and that is the incredible customer service and tech support. It simply DOES NOT get any better than that which Accordance offers! My hat is off to the folks at Oak Tree Software for an amazing product!

[A. Smith]

[*]The "Discourse" ESV and GNT resources are unique to logos and a great way to look at the text

This is the only reason I use logos, and since Steve works for Logos, I dont see these titles coming to Accordance any time soon.

[Donovan R. Palmer]

What he said.

Forgot to mention Galaxie journals as well! (Volumes 12 - 14)

[Outis]

My comments are somewhat tangental to this immediate discussion (Logos vs. Accordance), but are relevent to the larger discussion brought up in this thread.

A) I too recommend that the “user” parts of Accordance mature.

• USER NOTES: While I managed to find a work around so that I can sync from my mac pro to my macbook air via Dropbox, there is no way to sync to my iPhone. This is what keeps me from saving up and buying an iPad. I’d like to be able to sync it through dropbox (or iCloud?). I write lots of notes in my notes files. Right now the mobile version of Accordance has a size limit (10 megs?).
• USER TOOLS: While I import files into Accordance through simple html, the process is never smooth. Usually I have to make sure the html is very, very simple. Otherwise it won’t import. Likewise, even after I do import there are weird spacing issues throughout the document. When it’s done, it’s a wonderful to use not just on Accordance on my mac, but even more so on Accordance on my iPhone. It looks beautiful, scrolls smoothly and links to the stuff I want it to.

I recommend that the iOS part of Accordance mature even more so. I’m finding a growing number of people who have iPads but have no intention (yet) of buying a mac. Having a very well built, functional iOS app that works better than any other app out there for bible stuff would be a priority in the future. Right now the stuff out there for iOS stuff seems to be “companion” software. It’s not totally functional on its own. I think Accordance has a head start in this area compared to the other stuff out there. But, by bringing full functionality of Accordance to iOS I'd be able to take an iPad to a pastor's conference and not feel like I should have also brought my macbook air. For an example of what pastors might be looking for in an app, here is a good description: http://ipadinministr...n-with-an-ipad/

C) I don't have Logos. Every now and then I'm tempted to buy it since Lutheran publishers have chosen to publish their electronic resources almost exclusively through Logos. But there are two things which keep me from buying it:

• STABILITY: Every published review and personal conversation I've had with people about Logos is that it is both very resource intensive and somewhat buggy.
• EFFICIENCY: With Accordance I can get to the information I need to quickly (i.e. there's no wait for the computer to catch up with my clicking) and efficiently (I don't have to open up a bunch of windows or grind through a bunch of reports).

Now, having said this, please realize that I don't have Logos. they might have improved in the months and years since I've done my research.

[R. Mansfield]

That said, and this is a very personal opinion, I think Accordance has kept user content creation (currently User Notes, User Tools, User Bibles and Highlighting) to the side for WAY too long. They need to invest in this area as a top priority. The core of reading and searching and helping to drive creative and wonderful ideas, but it's way to hard to do that in the tool. I was hopeful for a while a few years ago when they did a few nice things with User Tools, but that momentum disappeared and we've been told outright it's not a priority. <sigh> For this reason, I don't buy commentaries in Accordance any more.. ever. I use Logos for commentaries and books, and Accordance for texts and their tightly integrated resources. I do this because I can engage with the Commentaries, link easily, edit easily, highlight the way I want to highlight, not end up with some hideous mix of patterns and colors that I have to print a legend to remember.</sigh>

I think taking notes on Accordance tools wasn't as big of a deal to me until I started reading books on the Kindle where taking notes is so easy. I forgot to mention this in my earlier answer to Tim's question about the Kindle, but this is also a factor, too. Accordance doesn't currently allow for notes on non-text titles and Logos does, but it seems easiest on the Kindle. When I take a note on the book in the Kindle, it's forever there unless I delete it, and it automatically travels from device to device. I don't have to specify what notes file to use as I do in Logos because there's an assumption that the notes for a book simply go with that particular book.

I'm very hopeful that in the near future, we will have the ability to include our own notes on all Accordance titles. I think Accordance should follow the Kindle's example and make the process easier than on Logos by simply associating a note on a title with that title and not require the user to specify it and possibly record a note in the wrong place.

User tools are another feature that I've long wanted to see beefed up in Accordance. I actually create user tools a good bit, but I'd do it significantly more if there were a few basic features such as the ability to indent text and add bulleted and numbered lists. The ability to add graphics and tables would open up an entire new world for me; however, I'd settle for right now just for improvements in formatting features in user tools.

Logos is better in their Personal Book Builder regarding some of the formatting issues, but I do not like the fact that it all has to be done in a Word file with tags added to every level. This seems cumbersome, especially in regard to making corrections. Even if editing the user tool in Accordance means opening a separate window, at least I don't have to go back to a separate source file and then re-import my changes.

Logos 4 went for two years without any PBB feature (after it had been included in the previous Libronix software), and I feel that Accordance missed an opportunity to really come out strong in this area by improving user tool features in the interim and really promoting the heck out of it.

But there's still opportunity. Like I said, I believe that ultimately creating these kinds of tools in Logos is awkward. Accordance could really shine in this area with some improvements to the current capabilities.

[mikes]

... But there's still opportunity. Like I said, I believe that ultimately creating these kinds of tools in Logos is awkward. Accordance could really shine in this area with some improvements to the current capabilities.

Doing anything other then reading and highlighting in Logos is awkward and I totally agree that Accordance has a great opportunity here, but they need acknowledge it as a priority first. None of these requests are close to being new or few. The lack of progress here over years pains me.

Edited by mikes, 25 February 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[R. Mansfield]

Rick and Donovan, with the rising popularity of other e-readers (e.g. Kindle and Nook) and the fact that books in these formats tend to be much cheaper than those on the Logos platform, do you think you will continue using Logos as an e-reader? Or do you just plan to install, say, Kindle reader on your Mac/iPhone/iPad and purchase these kinds of books on that platform?

One more thought in regard to this question: if a title contains original language content, it's usually formatted better in Bible software than on the Kindle. With the exception of titles from OSNOVA, I rarely see Greek and Hebrew reproduced with care and precision on the Kindle, and the situation usually seems even worse on the Nook.

[Helen Brown]

We are committed to overhauling the User Notes and User Tools features soon, but we have to give priority to some other upgrades. We do appreciate the feedback, and we take it to heart (perhaps too much so). We just cannot do everything at once.

[Donovan R. Palmer]

We are committed to overhauling the User Notes and User Tools features soon, but we have to give priority to some other upgrades. We do appreciate the feedback, and we take it to heart (perhaps too much so). We just cannot do everything at once.

I am extremely sympathetic to how much you guys take this to heart and knowing it does, makes it all the easier to support you! Try not to work too hard!

[Donovan R. Palmer]

I was thinking more about this later. I have a friend that started and built an internet business in the UK. One of the things that made it great was that he took the quality of service very personally. He was slightly obsessive. If things weren't just exactly right, he was all over it until it got sorted. This personal investment was what made the company one of the most reliable in the UK.

I see Accordance very similarly. I don't know any of them personally, but they all seem to be extremely hard workers from what I can tell. They make their involvement in this software very personal. Accordance may not have every feature we want, but the features it does have work exactly as advertised. They don't rest when things are quite like they want them.

So all this to say, a big thank you to all the gang at Accordance. We as users will always want more and of course you do as well, but we don't have to think through all the details and effort to advance to the next level. We are so grateful for your personal investment and we're glad to support the effort at Accordance!

[Bob Deacon]

So all this to say, a big thank you to all the gang at Accordance. We as users will always want more and of course you do as well, but we don't have to think through all the details and effort to advance to the next level. We are so grateful for your personal investment and we're glad to support the effort at Accordance!

Amen!

[Darin Allen]

So all this to say, a big thank you to all the gang at Accordance. We as users will always want more and of course you do as well, but we don't have to think through all the details and effort to advance to the next level. We are so grateful for your personal investment and we're glad to support the effort at Accordance!

Thanks for your comments, Donovan. Our name and reputation is very important to us, so we appreciate the feedback!

Edited by Darin Allen, 28 February 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[mikeboorman]

I concur with R. Mansfield. I just finished part 1 of an Accordance & Logos review on my (rarely updated) blog. I am a recent Accordance "convert" and wanted to try and offer an objective comparison between the two. In thinking things through, I felt that there is at least a slight difference in approach to Bible study between Accordance and Logos. My hypothesis holds true at least for myself since the study method I perceive from Accordance is the one I MUCH prefer. I have the Scholar's Library: Gold for Logos and I still find myself doing as R. Mansfield does: using Logos to read some resources but doing my study/research in Accordance.

I realize I'm not stating anything new, just wanted to echo an already solid response (great job R. Mansfield!).

[Helen Brown]

May we have a link to your blog post?

[Rick Bennett]

May we have a link to your blog post?

Found it: here.

I would note Mike that you can run Accordance on Windows via emulator (running Mac Classic). It certainly isn't pretty, but it can do almost everything the app does on OS X.

Also the current version of Accordance is 9.6.3 (free update from 9.x); not sure if that really affects anything, just wanted to note.