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#1 Julie Falling

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

Hey - I did a search and couldn't find the answer. I suspect it's, "No," but thought I'd ask anyway.

Is it possible to have a little keyboard viewer accessible from the menu bar "flag" icon for the Accordance fonts? I don't need it for the Greek letters - mostly for the diacritical marks. It would be nice to be able to do this without hauling out a piece of paper or opening a PDF.

Thanks.

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#2 Joe Weaks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:39 PM

Julie,
The OakTree fonts are old-style legacy fonts ("make an 'a' look like an alpha"), and you will increasingly find it incongruent to work with these fonts in modern OSes. You are correct that there is no longer a way to see the Helena characters in the system Keyboard Viewer. The ability to select a font in the Keyboard Viewer went away in 10.5 Leopard, iirc. The shift to Unicode fonts is all but complete now.
There are third-party utilities that will accomplish this. The cream of the crop is PopChar: http://www.ergonis.com/products/popcharx/
You can search for other alternatives as well.
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#3 David Lang

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

Julie, try customizing your Toolbar to include the Characters item. Then you can just like that button to see the Character popover. You can choose the font you want and hover over the characters to see the right key to enter, or click those characters to insert them. This, of course, only works in Accordance. If you want this in other programs you'll need something like PopChar.
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#4 Julie Falling

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

Thanks, guys. I've got the Characters in my Toolbar (and a few at my house, too).

The Greek letters are a non-issue because so many of the placements are just like English when appropriate, and the others are easy to learn. As I take on Hebrew, however, I'm gonna need some help! Because of cost, I may just have to stick with paper for the Yehudit alphabet at the beginning and see if I can learn it. Maybe the Characters will give me enough help with vowel points and those other mystery marks - assuming I can make some headway with the language. I've been told that Hebrew is not any harder than Greek (which I absolutely love), but the alphabet is pretty intimidating at this point.

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#5 Ken Simpson

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

Hi Julie,
I actually think Hebrew is easier than Greek in lots of ways, but the early learning curve is *much* steeper due to the unfamiliar letters and vowels.
I really think the hardcopy is the way to go. My office is still plastered with Heb (and some Greek) cheatsheets.

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#6 Julie Falling

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

Ken -

Thanks. I did print the Greek stuff and got it laminated - only a couple of bucks. Guess I should do the same with the Hebrew.

I've not started the Hebrew because we've been so busy with the church addition (just finished it up last week), & landscaping (did what we could until spring), that I've been letting the things that can wait, wait. I've now heard from enough reliable sources that the Hebrew, except for the alphabet, isn't bad that I'm going to trust you guys and get going with it as soon as possible.

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#7 Ken Simpson

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

Hi Julie,
sadly it is worse than just the alphabet, The vowel issues are not just recognition, but vowel changes that go on. But it's all "up front" learning. Do it right, do it early, and it will all become easier later.
The second issue is that vocal is just so unfamiliar. Possibly the only common words between Hebrew and English (apart from the complete borrowings like shalom, of which there are only a few) are the words for wine and camel (disputable).

But, nonetheless, it is worth it. From someone who so desperately wanted to throw Hebrew in after 4 months.

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#8 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:57 PM

Is it possible to have a little keyboard viewer accessible from the menu bar "flag" icon for the Accordance fonts? I don't need it for the Greek letters - mostly for the diacritical marks. It would be nice to be able to do this without hauling out a piece of paper or opening a PDF.

Thanks.


Julie

Another alternative is to use the Hebrew keyboard (which is part of the Mac OS), and can be displayed on the menu bar (star of David). Accordance preferences can then be set to use it (listed as "Israeli keyboard layout) for word entry (word search in text or tools). The advantage is the ability to type Hebrew in other programs and use unicode fonts with a keyboard layout you have already learned.

Michael

Edited by Michael J. Bolesta, 04 December 2012 - 06:15 PM.

Michael


#9 Ken Simpson

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

Just to tout another piece of software....I have used PopChar since OS7 days. It is not altogether cheap, but it is a simply wonderful piece of software when you are just looking for that character....

It handles Unicode perfectly, and non-Unicode, and it is unobtrusive and well-supported.

My only gripe is the pricing structure which seems a little steep to me.

I have no relationship with Ergonis Software other than as a satisfied user.

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#10 arcanemuse

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

Interesting tidbit... I can get the Greek alphabet now with just the character in the shortcut bar. That's quite useful! Thank you!
God Bless,
Rick

#11 Ken Simpson

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:30 AM

Hi Arcanemuse,
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. i'd love to though. Can you try again for the slow learners?
Thanks

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#12 arcanemuse

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:15 AM

I put the Characters in my shortcut bar as described above. When I click on that, I can view the Greek alphabet, which when you are learning it is a big plus. When you are learning the letters, it helps to be able to have that handy to see what it is you are looking at. I have the names of the letters in my head but I stumble over what they look like as I have been doing it auditory thus far. Sorry... trying to keep up with what is going on in my head will sometimes drop people off a cliff. :-)
God Bless,
Rick

#13 Julie Falling

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:58 AM

Hi Julie,
sadly it is worse than just the alphabet, The vowel issues are not just recognition, but vowel changes that go on. But it's all "up front" learning. Do it right, do it early, and it will all become easier later.
The second issue is that vocal is just so unfamiliar. Possibly the only common words between Hebrew and English (apart from the complete borrowings like shalom, of which there are only a few) are the words for wine and camel (disputable).

But, nonetheless, it is worth it. From someone who so desperately wanted to throw Hebrew in after 4 months.


Yeah - There were many things that helped me with the Greek. We have so many English words that come from Greek - that helped me with vocabulary. Even though Greek grammar is more complicated than English, there are many similarities.

Hebrew is just plain foreign! The prof I contacted (who said he'd help me) said in his email (and I quote it here), "Once you get past the shock of an odd looking alphabet without real written vowels that goes backward, it's not that bad." I may not be an Einstein, but had no problems with chemistry, calculus, and Greek that couldn't be overcome with hard work. What we may lack in natural talent can often be overcome with effort. I'm now looking forward to the challenge!

Have you been studying Hebrew for four months? In your first semester? What textbook? Any essential resources you can recommend? All input welcome.

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#14 Ken Simpson

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

Hi Julie,
no not four months, otherwise I would never know that it was worth persisting!

Yes, hard work can make a huge difference, nevertheless, in the end, language is usage and a fair measure of art....

I have been reading (ha!) Hebrew for about 3 years now, and while I still feel at home and comfortable in Greek, I can see why Hebrew becomes a passion. I have even started thinking about learning some Akkadian!

I used Pratico and Van Pelt as my textbook. It seemed fine. The best I have come across is a local piece of work by Athas and Young (Elementary Biblical Hebrew: An Introductory Grammar. Athas, G.A. and Young, I.M. 4th Ed. (Croydon Park, NSW: Ancient Vessel Press, 2008)
However, having said that P&VP is in Accordance so it's hard to go past that! My local seminary here uses Athas and Young ,and Ross. My one additional suggestion is that you get Michael Thigpen's Hebrew flashcard CD called iVocab Biblical Hebrew. It is excellent because the flashcards go on your iPhone (or I suspect onto your android phone if that's what you have) and not only do they flash, they speak! Excellent aids to memory.

Other than that, don't get discouraged, and in a while (when you have finished half of P&VP. start translating. Ruth is a fairly common place to start. Limited vocab and all narrative. Only a few weird forms like the hishtafel. There's a brilliant Reader for Ruth that's worth getting when you are up to it. Remind me and I will find the details for you when the time comes.

P.S. There's also a fabulous mp3 of Ruth being read in full cantillation that is great when you have finished that. It's free and really interesting.

Edited by Ken Simpson, 05 December 2012 - 04:44 PM.

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#15 Julie Falling

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

Ken -

I've read criticism of the way P&VP pronounces the language. What are the options? What is the best way to go?

In Greek we were taught pronunciation by convention, not the way the language is pronounced in modern Greece. Supposedly, most of the Bible colleges and seminaries go with that. At least we can distinguish between humeis and hemeis.

Thanks for the tips.

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#16 Ken Simpson

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:42 PM

Hi Julie,
It's not P&VP that does the cd I was talking about, it's Michael Thigpen. I think it's ok, but I am no pronunciation expert. I am not using it to learn how to speak, though, just to aid in memory.
I think if you want a real pronunciation guide, you should look at one of the Israeli ones...

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#17 Julie Falling

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:52 PM

I was able to order Thigpen used off Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation.

The criticism of P&VP was for the pronunciations on the CD that comes with the book. The Accordance module has the sound files build in, I think. Since I'm making a serious attempt to learn the language, it would be nice if what I learned was "speakable," too.

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#18 Ken Simpson

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:22 PM

I think you'l find Thigpen a big help. And it works well on iTunes in my experience.

Edited by Ken Simpson, 05 December 2012 - 09:25 PM.

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#19 Joe Weaks

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

FYI, the latest MacUpdate Software Bundle includes PopChar, and some other good stuff. If you wanted just two of the software packages included, you have a great deal.
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#20 Julie Falling

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:14 AM

Thanks, Joe. Got it. Some of the other stuff looks good, too. Quite a bargain. My husband is also going to buy it for his machines. Merry Christmas to us.

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