Jump to content


Photo

Problem with WBC


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 luoar

luoar

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:22 AM

I have had a long standing problem with WBC. If I type in a biblical reference it does not take me to the text in question. If I type in Psalm 49 for example, it takes me to Book II of the Psalms which includes Psalm 49 but not to Psalm 49 itself. I then have to find Psalm 49 myself, which is what I was hoping typing in the reference would do for me in the first place. Please see my screen shot. 

 

rari



#2 Mark Nigro

Mark Nigro

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 244 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Interests:Theology, biblical and modern languages, motorcycles, classical guitar, technology
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:10 AM

Rari, some commentary sets present this problem when they are linked with a series of chapters together, such as Psalm 42-72, and then also individual chapters (PSalm 49). I just tried this with my EBC and got the same problem with Psalm 49, which basically is that it takes you to the first occurrence in which your search query is identified. But here's the good news: so long as WBC has Psalm 49 linked you should be able to:

 

1. Type in the reference as you tried before

2. Hit return (it will then take you to the first link 42-72)

3. Click the down arrow on the lower left bar of the pane, labeled as "MK"

4. That should jump to the very next link for Psalm 49 (at least this is what happened in my case with EBC)

 

Hope that helps

 

mark


Edited by Mark Nigro , 17 January 2013 - 03:13 AM.

  • luoar likes this

#3 Ken Simpson

Ken Simpson

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,732 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Interests:Astronomy
    Archaeology
    Physics
    Hebrew and Greek
    Papyrology
    Orthopædic Surgery
    Yosemite 10.10.1
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:23 AM

Hi, mark's solution is good. But if you amplify by putting your cursor on the verse reference in a text and then select amplify, it should jump to the comment on the correct verse.
  • luoar likes this

#4 luoar

luoar

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:40 AM

Thank you for these work arounds. I was not aware of them and I will use them both. I find it odd though that the text is linked in this way. For me it does not make sense--unless it was a time saving device.

 

rari



#5 Ken Simpson

Ken Simpson

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,732 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Interests:Astronomy
    Archaeology
    Physics
    Hebrew and Greek
    Papyrology
    Orthopædic Surgery
    Yosemite 10.10.1
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:02 AM

Hi rari,

Mark's solution is a workaround admittedly, but the solution I suggested is the way it's supposed to work (most of the time anyway) since we assume that most people will want to read a commentary (or other reference tool) jumping from a biblical text.

 

I don't really know why your way doesn't work the way (at least) I think it should, but I haven't had it fail amplifying.

 

Hope that helps a little.


Regards
Ken
Lead Australian Accordance Demonstrator

Administrator, Accordance Exchange

Assistant Minister, Summer Hill Church


#6 luoar

luoar

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:10 AM

Hi Ken,

 

I understand what you are saying. If one wants to amplify the text one is taken directly to the commentary. However, what if one wants to go to the translation in WBC which contains the critical notes and not to the commentary proper? Then one has to type in the reference. I access the Translation and Notes as much as I do the Commentary. If one works in both one has to keep moving back and forth or have two windows open. As I see it the reference entry box should take me to the reference directly.

 

Shalom!

 

rari



#7 Ken Simpson

Ken Simpson

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,732 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Interests:Astronomy
    Archaeology
    Physics
    Hebrew and Greek
    Papyrology
    Orthopædic Surgery
    Yosemite 10.10.1
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:03 AM

Hi rari,

good to have the discussion!

 

I suspect most of us use the commentary as commentaries first and translation and critical notes second (dare I say it - if at all). If you do the amplify trick you can still use the Mk button to go up and down to other places where the same reference is cited. Interestingly it doesn't take you to the translation, but it does take you to the header/bibliography which is immediately followed by the translation (at least that seems to me to be the usual practice in WBC)

 

Thanks again, and shalom to you as well.


Regards
Ken
Lead Australian Accordance Demonstrator

Administrator, Accordance Exchange

Assistant Minister, Summer Hill Church


#8 Sean R.

Sean R.

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 289 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Russellville, TN
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

If you don't want to amplify from a text, you can always type =ps 49 to run a reference search in WBC-OT. It will then take you to the first proper reference to Psalm 49 (rather than simply where it appears in a range).


  • luoar likes this
Sean Reed

#9 JonathanHuber

JonathanHuber

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 891 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO
  • Interests:Bible study, Greek
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:22 AM

Typing the reference into the SEARCH box does exactly that: it searches. That reference may appear several times, as indicated by the fact that your screenshot shows 5 hits, so Accordance logically shows you the first hit. If you want to GO TO the reference, type it into the Go To box at the bottom-right of the screen. Ken's amplify method works because Accordance goes to the reference in addition to searching for the hits.


2012 non-retina Macbook Pro

OS 10.9.5 Mavericks


#10 luoar

luoar

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:04 AM

Jonathan, thanks for your reply. If I type in the GO TO box the results are inconsistent. If I type Psalm 49 for example, I am taken to the beginning of the commentary (translation and notes). If I type Psalm 23 I am taken to the commentary proper. One cannot predict where the GO TO button will take one. I don't quite agree that the Reference box is simply a search box. A Reference box ought to take one to the main reference. A commentary resource should allow one quick access to the right chapter of a book. 



#11 Mark Nigro

Mark Nigro

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 244 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Interests:Theology, biblical and modern languages, motorcycles, classical guitar, technology
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

Rari, one more observation which could help eliminate the extra hits. Click the magnifying glass in the search entry box and select "Exact Search." Once "Exact Search" is selected, all your entries should give you the precise result. By default, it is selected to "Flex" and this gives every variation of the search. Sean's suggestion of "=Ps 49" also does the same thing. But with "Exact Search" selected, you wont have to add the "=" anymore. Try it and let us know if that sorts it out for you.



#12 luoar

luoar

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:13 AM

Mark, no joy. Even with "exact search" when I type Psalm 49 I am taken to Book II of the Psalms.



#13 Mark Nigro

Mark Nigro

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 244 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Interests:Theology, biblical and modern languages, motorcycles, classical guitar, technology
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

That is a curious thing indeed. Must be a tagging choice in WBC? It worked for me in EBC but I just tried it in Tyndale and I got the same result as you did in WBC, which is "Book II, Psalm 42-72." I then clicked the "MK Down" arrow and it brought me to Ps 49. Sorry that didn't resolve it. For now I guess you'll need that little extra step of the "MK" arrow to navigate there.


Edited by Mark Nigro , 17 January 2013 - 10:23 AM.


#14 JonathanHuber

JonathanHuber

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 891 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO
  • Interests:Bible study, Greek
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

Jonathan, thanks for your reply. If I type in the GO TO box the results are inconsistent. If I type Psalm 49 for example, I am taken to the beginning of the commentary (translation and notes). If I type Psalm 23 I am taken to the commentary proper. One cannot predict where the GO TO button will take one. I don't quite agree that the Reference box is simply a search box. A Reference box ought to take one to the main reference. A commentary resource should allow one quick access to the right chapter of a book. 

 

I don't think the GO TO is being inconsistent. The comments on Ps 49 in the WBC start at verse 2, so you can't go to a comment on 49:1. The perceived inconsistency is due to the structure of the resource, not due to the way Accordance is working.

 

Regarding the search box: I'm just describing how the program currently works.  The search box is a search box, and changing the field you're searching (reference, content, title, etc) doesn't alter that.


2012 non-retina Macbook Pro

OS 10.9.5 Mavericks


#15 luoar

luoar

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:02 AM

Jonathan, if the GO TO box took me to the start of the commentary section every time there would be no inconsistency. It does not do that. Sometimes it takes me to the start of the commentary, other times to the start of the translation, other times to the start of the book divisions of the Psalter. Try typing in different Psalm numbers and you will see what I mean. This is clearly not by design because there is no consistency in the behaviour. As for the search box, I must disagree with you on this. The reference box should take the user to the primary place in the commentary where that reference is discussed.

 

rari  :)



#16 Joel Brown

Joel Brown

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • 2,997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:15 AM

There are a couple of things going on here, let me try to clarify:

 

1) Jonathan is correct, the top entry box is for running searches.  If you type "Psalm 49", you are telling Accordance to find every location of Psalm 49 in the title portion of commentary, whether referenced explicitly or as part of a range.  This may or may not take you to the section on it, but this is what you are asking Accordance to do.

 

2) If you search instead for =Psalm 49, you are asking Accordance to find every instance of just Psalm 49, so a hit for "Psalms 1-50" would not find it.  This is generally more accurate at jumping to that place in the tool.

 

3) Flex vs Exact doesn't really matter much here, it applies more to word variations and word combinations, not the range of verses.

 

4) The best way to jump to the specific passage in the tool is as Jonathan said, to put the passage in the GoTo section.  For almost all of my tools this works flawlessly, jumping right to the top of the section.

 

5) I say "most" because as you accurately point out, rari, WBC is a bit inconsistent in actually jumping to the top.  I'm actually not sure why it does this, but I have a feeling it could be some tagging errors in the tool - Rick or someone else who helped with the tagging may be able to clarify.  WBC is an extremely complex tool, so this may just be something funny going on with that, that can be cleared up.


  • luoar likes this
Joel Brown

By day: Consultant for Oaktree
By night: Freelance Trombonist and Private Instructor

#17 JonathanHuber

JonathanHuber

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 891 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denver, CO
  • Interests:Bible study, Greek
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:20 AM

I just looked at a variety of Psalms. Every time the comments begin at verse one, the Go To box takes you there. Every time the comments begin at verse 2, the Go To takes you to the beginning of the chapter. In Rari's example, if you Go To Psalm 49.2, it will take you to the beginning of the commentary. So I'm not seeing the inconsistency. Is there a specific example that isn't explained by this logic?

 

For clarification: it seems that entering Ps 49 actually tells Accordance to go to Ps 49.1. Perhaps that could be addressed.


Edited by JonathanHuber, 17 January 2013 - 11:24 AM.

2012 non-retina Macbook Pro

OS 10.9.5 Mavericks


#18 Rick Bennett

Rick Bennett

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,863 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa Bay, FL
  • Interests: gadgets, coffee, running and cycling, Rays baseball
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

I'll take a look and let you all know if I find anything relevant…


  • luoar likes this

Rick Bennett
Director of Content Development
iOS Working Group


#19 Rick Bennett

Rick Bennett

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,863 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa Bay, FL
  • Interests: gadgets, coffee, running and cycling, Rays baseball
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

A couple observations:

 

1. Using GoTo and typing in Ps 49 and Ps 23 you get two different results. BUT, the text is marked-up identically between these two Psalms. If you use =Ps 23 or =Ps 49 in the search entry you get the same result.

2. There are inconsistencies with how this commentary is formatted. For example, attempt a similar scenario in Proverbs. None of the opening chapter ranges I saw (those that precede the translation) are tagged. Therefore, searches for =Prov 1 and =Prov 2 respectively go to the verse-level comments.

 

So, we've got some cleanup we can do to the text, and possibly a bug with navigation. Joel and I can look into these respectively. For now, I would recommend using =Ps 49 as a search in the ref field to find hits like this (so long as the reference is tagged).

 

I hope this helps…


  • luoar likes this

Rick Bennett
Director of Content Development
iOS Working Group


#20 luoar

luoar

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

Thank you so much for your trouble Rick and Joel. I very much appreciate it. 

 

rari






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users