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#1 WomanoftheHouse

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:38 AM

Hi, I'm researching to help my (non-techie) husband decide whether he'd like Logos or Accordance.  Watching the videos, I think the overall approach of Accordance may be more intuitive for him.  They each seem to have their pros.  For Accordance, it's ease of searching (no string commands) and the multiple windows.  With Logos, it's little things like the bibliography generator, smoothness of exporting to other software (Pages, Keynote), and little things like the pronunciation option.  Some reviews have commented that Logos is better when you want the "read your library" effect and Accordance when you want to study languages.  My dh does not read hebrew or greek nor is not likely ever to.  His interest is primarily in making commentaries more searchable and easy for him to work with for preparing Sunday School or Bible study lessons.  

 

So I guess my first question is, if he uses the flex search feature with commentaries or say Milton's Paradise Lost, will it search thematically or is it tagged in such a way that things will pop up for him?  I'm sorry that's such a terribly basic question, but it seems like a lot of the videos I've been watching show how to do interlinear studies and whatnot.  He more wants to be able to read what has been *written* about those passages, and I'm trying to make sure I understand what the software can do to facilitate that.  

 

And my 2nd question is, knowing that's his goal, is there a simpler or alternate solution we should be looking at?  

 

As far as price point and quantities, I think he'd go Platinum in Logos 5 or Advanced in Accordance.  It's  mainly the history stuff and commentaries he's interested in.  So I don't think a simple solution like just reading the book on the ipad with the search function will do.  I think he wants a more powerful solution that allows him to cull through multiple sources at once when researching what has been written on a topic.  I'm just trying to research and make sure we're doing that the most sensible way possible.

 

Thanks!



#2 JonathanHuber

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:19 AM

Hello,

 

I have limited experience with Logos and can't say much about the comparison, but I can say that Accordance makes it very simple to open a Bible, open a commentary in parallel, and read or search. Logos isn't necessarily better for reading; it just tends to offer more books for the price. But Accordance makes it easy to USE the books, hence the deserved reputation for searching. Logos and Accordance are both very powerful programs, and your husband will have to learn the software either way. But I've been using Accordance for a couple of years and have no regrets about my choice. So, I'll try to answer your questions from the Accordance perspective.

 

First, if your husband is most interested in a good collection of commentaries, you should compare equal packages in Logos and Accordance. The Logos Platinum package costs almost twice as much as Accordance Advanced and is more similar in price to Accordance Ultimate. The reason that matters is that good newer commentaries aren't cheap (so a simpler alternative simply will skip them and offer only older, public-domain works). The Advanced collection is great and includes some good commentaries, but the Ultimate collection adds even more, including several that I use daily. Logos does offer big libraries at good prices, but I think the new Accordance collections (especially the Ultimate) are a really good value too. So think about that.

 

As you mentioned, Accordance is good for original languages, but that's because reading and searching is so powerful and straight-forward, as you also noticed. That is true for searching English-language resources too. In addition, when searching the Bible for keywords, it's sometimes important to search for the underlying Greek or Hebrew word instead of the English word used in translation, and Accordance makes it easy to do that even for people who don't want to directly read the original language.

 

As far as searching the commentaries, there is not currently any system of tags in the sense that you could search a commentary or book for themes. Having said that, there are many ways to find stuff on different topics. The larger Accordance collections include a variety of themes dictionaries, topical reference books, and cross-reference resources that can connect passages together dealing with various themes.

 

In addition, it's easy to search for places where certain words or word combinations appear. The flex search will find "loved" and "loves" when you search for "love", so it's a little easier to catch all of the forms of the word. Accordance searches are VERY fast, so it's easy to search for, say, "love", and then search again for "charity" if you don't find what you're looking for. Or you can search for them all at once. Accordance also has a great Search All feature that enables you to search for words or verse references in the entire library and see everywhere they're found (including Bible translations, dictionaries, commentaries, and books). 

 

If you want to see what a commentary says about specific verses, you can open a bible and commentary in parallel and they will scroll together. You can also search the commentaries for verse references to see every place a particular reference is mentioned. That goes for books too.

 

Finally, if your husband is interested in the history (background?) behind passages, he will love the graphics package included in the larger collections. The Accordance Atlas and Timeline modules are completely searchable, unlike pictures in books. So if he wants to see where Shiloh is located or when Josiah lived relative to the exile, just search for it! It's that easy. Great for learning the space and time context for people and events.

 

A demo version of Accordance can be found here (http://www.accordanc...ree-Trial-Demo/) if you want to try it before buying.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Jonathan


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#3 Julie Falling

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

Hey - The commentaries can be searched in many ways, and they're not the same for every commentary.  I've taken a few screen shots so that you can see.  It makes them so much more useful and powerful than a hard copy.

 

Attached File  Expositor's Bible Commentary -R.png   24.37KB   54 downloadsAttached File  Bible Knowledge.png   20.37KB   64 downloadsAttached File  Tyndale.png   19.11KB   44 downloads

 

The collections you're considering have a whole lot of Greek and Hebrew resources that your husband may never use.  Buying the entire collection may still be the best value, but the folks at Accordance may give you a better path for loading up on the English resources that your husband would really use without buying lots of Greek and Hebrew texts and lexicons that he would use rarely if at all.

 

I've been using Accordance for over nine years and it is the most valuable tool I have for reading and studying the Bible.  I have studied Greek (and hope to take on Hebrew), so I have sunk a fair amount of money into Greek texts, lexicons, and other resources.  I don't regret a penny of it.  I use Accordance virtually every week in teaching Sunday school.  I use it for my own studies.  I use it on my iPad to follow my pastor's preaching with English & Greek open in parallel.  My husband will have an English text and study Bible notes open in parallel on his iPad during the sermon.

 

I do not own Logos because back when I made my purchase, it was not available for the Mac.  

 

There are some videos posted on YouTube comparing Logos 4 and Accordance 9 (both programs have been updated since then).  You might want to check it out here -  http://www.youtube.c...?v=3SvUh94dwsE.


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#4 WomanoftheHouse

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:12 AM

Thank you Jonathan and Julie!!  It hadn't even occurred to me that the search options would change with the resource.  Interesting.  We'll definitely look into alternate package options, thanks for the tip.  

 

So, Julie, do you ever have wanderlust for Logos or find yourself wanting to do things that Accordance can't do for you?



#5 Julie Falling

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:01 AM

There is a Greek grammar available in Logos that is not in Accordance yet.  I considered getting Logos just for that, but realized that I have plenty to do until it arrives in Accordance and decided against it.  Accordance is so FAST in searches.  The tagging of Greek texts is done with great care by scholars who really know their stuff, and thoroughly proofed before release. (Don't know about Logos in that respect.)  I appreciate the thoroughness in the details as well as the responsiveness of support and development at Accordance.  When I've had a real issue, Helen has taken the time to screen share with me to get the problem resolved (just twice in nine+ years).  My pastor has had the same experience.  I have no regrets.

 

I did start off with a middle of the road package in 2003.  I added resources a little at a time.  Then I bought up to the next level because it was a more economical way to get a couple of modules I wanted.  When I started taking Greek at a local Christian college in 2008, I began adding Greek resources - more texts, some lexicons, apparatus, commentaries.  When Accordance 10 came out, I bought up to the Essential Collection.  I will probably never go to the Advanced or Ultimate - there are just too many things there that I would never, ever use.  I'm NOT going to learn Syriac; I'm not going to relearn Latin.  I'm a serious student, not a scholar, not a professor, not a pastor.  (And I neither have nor want a housekeeper or cook, and I don't send the laundry out, either.  Time really is an issue for a homemaker or someone else with a full-time job.)

 

There is absolutely nothing I want to do that Accordance won't do.  

 

It is also significant that the author of the book we used for 1st year Greek uses Accordance (William Mounce); same with 2nd year Greek (Daniel Wallace); the reader we used for 3rd year Greek was also authored by an Accordance user (Rodney Decker).  They all used Accordance in the preparation of their books to one degree or another.

 

Accordance is adding new resources all the time, and most of us have plenty to keep us busy with what we already have.  I would also prefer to have quality rather than quantity.  Many of the programs are loaded up with a bunch of public domain stuff that almost no one uses.  Would you want 50 books on your shelves that you never look at?  Do you really need them on your computer?  (At least on the computer you don't have to dust them, however.)

 

I don't think you or your husband would be disappointed with Accordance.  It is the single best tool I have for reading and studying the Word, continuing my study of Greek, learning Hebrew, preparing Sunday school lessons, and as a teaching tool in class.


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#6 JonathanHuber

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

Just one comment: keep in mind that although the larger packages include a variety of Greek and Hebrew resources that might not matter to you, they also include many English-language resources (including commentaries and more) at better deals than buying them all individually. Find the best way to get what what matters to you, and don't be put off by the inclusion of some resources you don't need. Julie's suggestion to call the sales team is always a good idea.


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#7 Joe Laing

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

Just my 2 cents...

 

I "used" to own Logos and had been with them from way back.  Logos is not for everyone and sold my collection last spring.  Believe it or not, I found that even though it is a good piece of software loaded with lots of goodies I really didn't use it that much.  Why?  It overwhelmed you with resources.  I know that I could have personalized it, but I like the simplicity of Accordance.  With version 10 of Accordance, Accordance has become much more intuitive.  Of course, Accordance certainly doesn't lack the firepower to compete with Logos.

 

The other Bible Software that I own is WORDSearch.  They have some unique resources and I have continued to use WORDSearch along with Accordance.

 

If I had to buy one Bible Software package, then I definitely would purchase Accordance.  Again, my opinion...but I feel as if the resources that Accordance puts out are given more attention when they are compiled than other publishers.  What do I mean?  There seems to be more cross-referencing, linking between resources with Accordance vs. putting out volume.

 

Hope this proves helpful.



#8 arcanemuse

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:22 AM

This might help and it might not.  I guess I am just too old to be able to adjust fully to any of it.  I am very technically inclined and have been using computers for close to 20 years but I still have problems that make me want to scream in rage and frustration when I use any of these programs.  I can get code that's got some mangled lines to work by hook or by crook using trial and error but if you give me a graphical interface my mind just melts down.  The simpler you make it, the harder it is for me to use it.   The last word processor I could actually make sense of was Word Perfect for DOS 5.1.  I have just spent a VERY frustrating 6 hours trying to make either Accordance or Logos help me with this Sunday school lesson.  I finally gave up and grabbed a couple of books... got a start on it in 5 minutes and using Google found the passage I had been trying to find for hours in about 30 seconds.  I seriously wanted to just pick this computer up and throw it through a wall at that point but thought better of that choice.  As somebody that has trouble with these things, I can empathize with WomanoftheHouse's husband.  I think that the less bells and whistles you have to deal with, then the better off you shall be.  Logos is a TANK.  It eats system resources indexing every time you add resources to it.   It is very slow to start up and it uses about 500 megs of memory to just keep it running.  That being said, it has a HUGE amount of resources that you will most likely never use some of.  It is handy to have them when you do a search... if you can figure out how to make the search thing happy and give it the mystical coding it desires to be happy.
Accordance is very fast and does lightning fast searches.  If you are stupid like me and don't give it the words it wants, then you can try and try and try but you won't ever find it.  I never did find what I really wanted.  I found one Psalm that I thought would be good and decided to just use that....  Depending on your husband's age and how long he has been using regular books as a resource, he might have problems adjusting to a computer.  To make it less confusing and much easier on him to adjust to, give Accordance a go.  The indexing process of Logos alone will try the patience of Job and having a huge plethora of stuff will only make that process go slower and make using it day to day more overwhelming. 


God Bless,
Rick

#9 Helen Brown

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:26 AM

Arcanemuse: Really curious now, what were you looking for?


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#10 Randy Cue

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:51 PM

I have and use both Logos and Accordance. Each has its advantages. To me the biggest advantage of Logos is the ability to format the English Biblical text in a variety of ways that preserve poetic format and superscripts for verse numbers. Once Accordance does that (I hope it is soon :D ), Logos will lose its advantage at least in my mind.

 

Soli Deo Gloria,

Randy


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#11 revtim

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

Randy,

 

I might have misread or misunderstood what you are looking for Accordance to do ... but, I am able to have verse numbers superscripted as well as retain poetic format. Both can be done through the Text Display in the Preferences.

 

Attached File  My Screen.tiff   392.35KB   18 downloads


Edited by revtim, 20 January 2013 - 05:06 PM.

In Christ,

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#12 Kevin Soars

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:30 AM

Arcanemuse/Rick

 

On reading your latest post, I could understand your frustration as I, too, am getting older! (Unlike you, I am not very technically minded; so that can make things even worse.) However, I also felt, while reading, that there would definitely be others who could have helped you with your search. Then I continued to read and was delighted to see  of course an offer of help with Helen's "Really curious now, what were you looking for?"

 

So can I add that I am really, really curious to know what you were looking for, knowing that Helen or somebody else will be able to help?

 

Kevin.


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#13 arcanemuse

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:07 AM

What I was trying to find was something to go with Isaiah 26 vs 3:4 dealing with the rock and strength.   I found Psalm 18 pretty quick with Google.  I was about to give up entirely when I found a list of verses buried several layers deep in some Logos search I did.  I could never duplicate that if my life depended on it so I have no clue how I got where I did.  I came up with a whole bunch of really good verses ... all of them in the Psalms that completed my expository thoughts on those verses.  I have been reading through an overview commentary that is really quite good for the first part and thought I would get brave and give this newest idea of mine a thought and give them a break from Barnhouse or Pink or Spurgeon.  That list was just fine.. had just what I wanted.  I sure wish I knew how I managed to find them.  I'll be needing more next week.  The rest of the background history... i.e. the date of the composition of Rock of Ages (the hymn I requested for our first one) and the author's full name (Augustus Montague Toplady... quiet a monicker)  and the tie-in with PP Bliss and Dwight Moody, et al... I got from a Bible commentary I have in paper and Google.    All I needed was that verse list and I had no idea how to get it.  I probably should have posted something asking for help but... I figured I would see if anyone else was maybe as stupid as I am and there might be an answer already posted... and then I saw the post of somebody wondering what to get her non-techie husband and thought my trials and tribulations and experience using both might be of some help in the decision. 


God Bless,
Rick

#14 Randy Cue

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:06 AM

Randy,

 

I might have misread or misunderstood what you are looking for Accordance to do ... but, I am able to have verse numbers superscripted as well as retain poetic format. Both can be done through the Text Display in the Preferences.

 

attachicon.gifMy Screen.tiff

I was speaking of being able to export to a word processor and retain those properties. You are not able to do that completly yet and it is being worked on.

 

Soli Deo Gloria,

Randy


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#15 Helen Brown

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

I pulled up NRSVS, and did a Flex search for "rock strength" (without quotes). No results, so I added the Scope field set to Chapter and got these verses:

 

1 Sam 2:1–2, 4, 10, 31; 2 Sam 22:2–3, 8, 32–33, 40, 47; 1 Kings 19:8, 11; Job 18:4, 12; 30:2, 6; 39:11, 28; Psa 18:1–2, 7, 31–32, 39, 46; 28:1, 7–8; 31:2–3, 10; 71:3, 9; 78:15–16, 20, 35, 51; 81:1, 16; 89:17, 26; 105:4, 36, 41; Prov 30:19, 25–26; Is 10:13, 26; 30:15, 29; 44:8, 12; 51:1, 9; Jer 16:16, 19; 49:4, 16; Amos 6:12–13; Nah 1:6, 12; Judith 16:13, 15; Wis 11:4, 21; Sir 40:15, 26; 1 Cor 10:4, 13
 

That took all of a minute, maybe less.


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#16 JonathanHuber

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:53 AM

With sincere apologies to womanofthehouse for derailing this thread, remember also that you can find lots of related passages using topical dictionaries and cross reference modules. For example, searching the Crossreferences tool for Is. 26:3-4 finds lots of relevant verses.

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#17 Julie Falling

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:13 AM

Jonathan - We really do seem to wander off topic here quite a bit, don't we?  I love the Cross References (and Outlines) and use them all the time.  The notes files that come with many of the Bible versions have useful cross references, too, and some of the versions (ESV comes to mind) have cross references of their own.


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#18 arcanemuse

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:15 AM

I can't find a scope field to set to anything... Tonight i was trying to do a search for a Hebrew word during our service tonight... I don't have the Hebrew characters for it  just the English with it.... Logos was having issues and wouldn't even start up right...   The visiting pastor could see how much my stress level was rising and how close that Macbook Air was about to live up to its name when it went flying so he said to just figure it out at home and get back to him tomorrow at dinner.  Again, I got my answer with Google in 2 minutes when i got home.   Like I said.. if you don't have the exact and precise wording in the precise and exact place...  I never thought about cross references... that's a good idea.  I was so angry and frustrated and about to explode... I was past the ability to think.  That's how it is with computers.  It's like having to be in a large crowd of people or drive in bad traffic.  It always brings out the worst in you.  @@

Sorry this wasn't my intention to go off on a tangent with this... I was just trying to put my experience as a complete graphic user interface idiot in there as perhaps some help in choosing a program to use.  If I can't figure it out... I"ll try the cross references thing or just use Google to get what I need or.. just give up entirely and forget the whole idea and go to plan B.  Sometimes you are just better off to admit you are too stupid to do something and just give up.  :-)

And to use it in church, it has to be in the KJV but I could use other versions for their cross references I suppose.


Edited by arcanemuse, 22 January 2013 - 05:17 AM.

God Bless,
Rick

#19 Julie Falling

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:09 AM

Rick - This may be a dumb question, but have you watched Dr. J's podcasts?  I have found them very helpful.  I pause them and repeat Dr. J's searches and other stuff.  

 

Something else you would find helpful is an all-day Training Seminar (http://www.accordanc...inars-And-Shows).  We've been to one and will attend another when there is one offered within a couple of hours drive.  They're free, very well done, and a great place to learn - not just from the Accordance folks but also from other users.  

 

With the help of the podcasts and the forums, I've been able to learn how to do what I want to do.  I also read the blog and repeat the seaches described there (http://www.accordancebible.com/Blog).  That has been very useful, too.

 

I am NOT young (just had my 61st birthday), but I really, truly love technology.  I love what I am able to do because of it.  But there has also been a learning curve.  Not just with Accordance, but with other software.  And with the computer itself.  Having used Accordance for over 9 years, I'm very comfortable with it, but still have Duh? moments.  I'm now trying to learn how to use ProPresenter because I'm helping out with some stuff for our church.

 

What has really helped me with Accordance is to do a lot of experimenting and searching and "rabbit chasing" when I'm not under time-pressure.  That way when I need to find an answer fast, I'm more likely to be able to do it without frustration (or perhaps contemplating using my laptop as a frisbee?).

 

I can sympathize, because the learning does seem to take longer as we get older, but I also think that continuing to learn is beneficial in all areas of our lives.  Yeah, there's a price to pay - time, effort, and some degree of frustration.  But it's worth it.

 

Hang in there.

 

Now we've really hijacked WomanoftheHouse's post, but I hope the discussion has helped someone.


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#20 Helen Brown

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

Click the + sign beside the search entry box to get additional fields. The first one that comes up is the Range, but you can set it to Scope. Better yet, watch the podcasts on version 10, or schedule a private screenshare session with tech support or with me, to get familiar with the basics of Accordance. You sound frustrated, and that's the last thing we want to hear.


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