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Microsoft Surface RT or Pro Compatibility


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#1 craigminah

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

The Microsoft Surface RT is out now and the Surface Pro will be released 9 Feb 2013.  Will Accordance 10 for Windows run on the Windows Surface RT and/or Windows Surface Pro?  Thanks.



#2 R. Mansfield

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

Once the Windows version of Accordance 10 is released later this year, it should run fine on a Surface Pro, assuming it runs in Windows 8.

 

The Surface RT tablet has to have programs specifically written for it and doesn't run straight Windows programs, so we can only assume Accordance will not run on it. I haven't heard OakTree announce any plans for RT.

 

From what I've read, WindowsRT has not really taken off. It's too early to say for certain, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is eventually discontinued unless Microsoft can determine a way to better distinguish it from other Windows 8 tablets. It would be an iffy proposition for any company with many irons in the fire to write a program for that platform.

 

[Note that I don't speak for Oak Tree. I'm just speaking from what I know about the difference between the Surface RT tablets and the Surface Pro tablets.]


Edited by R. Mansfield, 22 January 2013 - 12:56 PM.

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#3 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

I concur with what Rick M just said. My understanding is that Windows RT, despite having "Windows" in the name, is a totally different program than Windows.  No plans here at present to program Accordance for it.


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#4 craigminah

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:46 PM

Thanks for the quick replies.  Good to hear there's a tablet alternative to the iPad...depending on the specs of the next iPad mini I may go with a Surface Pro or iPad Mini for Accordance.



#5 Helen Brown

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

Given the work involved in porting to the iOS and to Windows, I rather doubt that Accordance will run on the Surface Pro any time soon. Accordance is compatible with Windows 8, but will Surface Pro support all the underlying technology that Accordance will need? It will be running also on Windows XP etc.

 

If you want to be sure of Accordance on a tablet, I would stick with the iOS.


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#6 craigminah

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:22 AM

Given the work involved in porting to the iOS and to Windows, I rather doubt that Accordance will run on the Surface Pro any time soon. Accordance is compatible with Windows 8, but will Surface Pro support all the underlying technology that Accordance will need? It will be running also on Windows XP etc.

 

If you want to be sure of Accordance on a tablet, I would stick with the iOS.

According to Microsoft, the Surface Pro "...can run Windows 8 applications, as well as current Windows 7 desktop applications."  That's why the Surface Pro is enticing, plus it's got an Intel i5 CPU so it should be really fast.  On the downside, battery life is about 5 hours.  The Surface RT cannot run any programs not specifically comppiled to run on it so Accordance won't work on it.



#7 Julie Falling

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:00 AM

A big problem with the Windows tablets is the size of the OS install - 16G!  So if you get a 32G tablet, you really only have 16G to store your apps and other stuff.  iOS is only 4G.  A 64 bit install of Windows 8 is 20G; Mountain Lion, also 64 bit, is only 5.6G.  The size difference on a computer is not as big a deal; on a tablet, it's huge.


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#8 craigminah

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:47 AM

A big problem with the Windows tablets is the size of the OS install - 16G!  So if you get a 32G tablet, you really only have 16G to store your apps and other stuff.  iOS is only 4G.  A 64 bit install of Windows 8 is 20G; Mountain Lion, also 64 bit, is only 5.6G.  The size difference on a computer is not as big a deal; on a tablet, it's huge.

That's a good point...the Surface Pro accepts SD cards so that's an option. 



#9 R. Mansfield

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

Technically, the Surface RT has a card slot, too, so you can add up to 64 GB of expansion to it. If only my iPad would do that!

 

On another note, don't forget that there is a legally modded OS X tablet available from Axiotron, called the ModBook Pro. Pricey, but it'd be interesting to take Accordance for a whirl on one of them.


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#10 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

True, Rick, but why waste all that money? Just use one of the many iOS apps that allow you to control your Mac remotely. Then you can use the full Accordance OSX program and all its resources. [I'd recommend a good stylus though, as some of those though points are mighty small.]

 

I know, I know, then you have to be online to do so. However, there are some Bible apps that always require that...


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#11 R. Mansfield

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

Oh, I have no plans on getting a ModBook, but was just reminding folks that they're out there if anyone wants the full OS X Accordance experience on a tablet.

 

I've tried the remote access apps for bringing OS X applications to iOS in the past, and just didn't find them all that usable. I'm glad that the iOS Accordance app continues to get better, although I'm crazy enough to wish I could get four texts on the screen instead of just two.

 

Having said all that, I will be interested in seeing Accordance for Windows on a Windows 8 tablet, whether it's a Surface Pro or one of the other brands. I was surprised to see the Surface Pro will have a lower-end 1.7 GHz Intel Core i5 processor. That's probably necessary for battery life, but the surface Pro is not going to be the machine Windows users choose for processor-intensive applications. On the other hand, assuming Accordance for Windows will run on a Surface Pro tablet (and I see no reason why it would not), I'm certain that it will simply fly (if it's anything like the OS X version) when it comes to speed and responsiveness (unlike a certain processor-intensive competitor, which I'm predicting will be even slower than its normal slowness on the Surface Pro).


Edited by R. Mansfield, 25 January 2013 - 05:09 PM.

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#12 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:27 AM

Rick, you are not alone in wanting more panes.

 

Our iOS team is wrestling with these kinds of requests, but we are limited by [oddly enough] the size of most people's fingertips. Apple recommends the touch areas be no smaller than 44x44 pixels. The more panes we add, the smaller these touch points have to be. We're running out of screen real estate!

 

I suggested using a stylus to our team and got laughed out of the discussion. Seems no one else is old enough to remember the Palm UI, which I used successfully for many years. I'd certainly be wiling to use a stylus to get four screens, but I seem to be in the ["old man"] minority.

 

Popups are one way we've tied to get around the pane limitations. The ESVi allows popups for cross-references and Bible notes, saving us two panes. Original texts with siglia have apparatus popups, which again allows us to save a pane. We're looking for more ideas like these.


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#13 R. Mansfield

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

In a move that even surprised me, I picked up a Microsoft Surface RT weekend before last. I mainly got it because I wanted to experience Windows 8 on a touchscreen, which is what it's really designed for. I didn't need a device with a full implementation of Windows Pro because I already have that in VMWare on my MacBook Pro. Staples offered a coupon for $100 off any Windows 8 tablet or laptop, so I bit for the 32 GB Surface RT. I got the Type Cover and added a 32 GB micro-SDHD card, which I've mainly used to transfer files back and forth between the Surface and my MacBook Pro.

 

The Surface RT is an interesting creature. It's part tablet and part laptop--really much of a hybrid device. I will say that I understood more about Windows 8 in two days of having the Surface RT than I did after having Windows 8 Pro installed in VMWare for the last few months. Windows 8 makes much more sense on a touchscreen than on a non-touchscreen laptop or desktop. 

 

With the Surface RT, I can actually grade my students' papers because it has a "real" copy of Microsoft Word (I use Word's commenting system to annotate my students' papers). This is something I cannot do on my iPad.

 

No, I'm not going to convert over to Windows, but I do like this device. It's flawed in some areas, but genius in others. I've tried out a number of non-Apple tablets over the last couple of years, but I've always eventually sold them. I may end up holding on to the Surface for a while, though, if I can find a regular place for it in my workflow. At the very least, I'd like to hold on to it to observe hands-on how Windows 8 develops over time.

 

For what it's worth, there are no decent Bible applications available yet for the Surface RT. Yes, both Logos and OliveTree are represented there, but there apps are anemic compared to their respective versions on other platforms. They are little more than readers at this point. I wouldn't necessarily suggest OakTree focus any resources on a Windows RT version of Accordance because RT is a risky venture right now for any company, big or small.

 

However, I have a hunch Windows RT is not going away. The feeling I get from what I read and hear from Microsoft is that RT is really what they consider the true Windows 8 experience. WinRT is the future of Windows and the desktop and legacy Windows (i.e. non-Modern UI) programs will eventually go away. Microsoft has enough money and enough patience to play a long game on this. I don't see them backing down or changing course from the direction they've taken despite complaints about Windows 8 from a large number of people. 


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#14 Dan Francis

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

And Logos has announced the limited 1.0 is all they are going to do unless marketshare increases much more…. OT i have no idea, but the RT seems dead in the water…. a few other manufactures have stopped plans for introducing them or have discontinued them already. I am sure MS will have more luck with the Pro, and I hope you have no issues with you RT (I remember a sizeable number of them were splitting open after a few weeks usage, yet still functional). 

 

-Dan



#15 R. Mansfield

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:32 PM

As I said, I predict Microsoft will play a long game with Windows RT. They released a bunch of updates for it today. They are also working on a major update for all of versions of Windows 8, including RT, code-named "Blue" for later this year. Personally, I think the Surface RT is priced too high. It would be a more attractive purchase if reduced in price by $100 or more--with a coupon, I got mine for $399. They should throw in the keyboard cover, too, rather than making it an extra expense. The Surface RT or Pro is really not as useful without a keyboard.

 

As for splitting, if that happens, I'll be sure to send it in to Microsoft for a replacement. They replaced my Xbox 360 a number of times over the years :-)


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#16 craigminah

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:18 AM

I've seen rumors hinting Microsoft may not keep RT around but once the Windows version of Accordance is out a Surface Pro would provide all the functionality (e.g. tabs, panes, etc.) that are in the desktop version and not in the iOS version so it's still tempting.  Still a tad expensive and not enough storage so maybe best to wait for Surface Pro 2.  That ModBook looks neat but at $3,200 is a little out of my price range...



#17 R. Mansfield

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

Craig, you've not heard those rumors about the RT from Microsoft. Unless they make a dramatic change in course, RT essentially is the future of Windows. The "Blue" update coming out later this summer moves more of the desktop functionality over to the new UI. As I said earlier, Microsoft is willing to play the long game in this transition. They've certainly got the money to do so. Microsoft can't make changes as quickly as Apple can because they have so many more users, but if they stay on course, they will continue to move further away from desktop apps one step at a time. It may take them five years or more, but there may come a day when the traditional desktop apps become like Classic mode in early version of OS X and will eventually be phased out. At that point, all developers will have to have moved their programs to the new UI.


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#18 RPat

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

Let me clear up some misinformation about the Surface Tablets:

 

1) Surface RT is using an ARM processor and is running a 'special' version of Windows 8, Word, Excel, etc.  It is not compatible with previous versions of Windows.  The Surface RT is a totally different animal from the Surface Pro.  The Surface RT will only run software SPECIFICALLY built for it.

 

2) Surface Pro is using an Intel processor and is running the normal version of Windows 8 that runs on desktops, laptops and ultrabooks.  If your software runs under Windows 7, it should run under Windows 8 on the Surface Pro.  In addition, most Windows XP applications will run on the Surface Pro with WIndows 8.  There are compatibility settings availble under Windows 8 for running XP programs.  These features are available only on the Intel version of Windows 8.

 

The key point to remember is that the Surface RT is not an Intel-based tablet.  The Surface Pro is an Intel-based tablet and therefore has compatiblity with your Windows 7 and Windows XP programs.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Rich


Edited by RPat, 28 March 2013 - 02:16 PM.


#19 R. Mansfield

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:25 PM

Oh no--I bought the wrong one!

 

Kidding.


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#20 Joe Weaks

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

Seems to me The SurfacePro is the long-wait that Microsoft will play. As in, it's going to take awhile before the hardware limitations of the SurfacePro are non-debilitating.

 

The SurfaceRT will go the way of the Zune.


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