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iPad 1 users - are we getting left out?


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#1 justin4jesus

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:35 AM

From my other posts I see that I'm not alone regarding the frequent problems with Accordance and iPad 1 / ios 5. I have been forced to use Olive Tree and Logos again because Accordance app has become unuseable most of the time.
How many of us use the iPad 1? Is Accordance following the Apple model and droping support for devices after a year or two?
If you use the iPad 1 please reply - either show them that many of us are still out there or show me that it's time to get a Windows 8 device as soon as Accordance is ported to Windows.
Do I throw in the towel on my iPad investment?



#2 Sean R.

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:14 AM

I use Accordance on a first generation iPad, and I've not experienced any significant issues. The Accordance iOS app does occasionally crash on me, but less frequently than does Safari and several other Apple apps on my iPad. Sorry to hear you're having problems.


Sean Reed

#3 John Fidel

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:51 AM

Using a 1st generation iPad and Accordance for IOS without issues. Have you tried a reboot and or closing all the programs the iPad leaves open by double tapping the home button and then selecting the x on each of the programs? I do not let the iPad manage memory as I usually go in and close out programs and reboot regularly.

 

See if that helps.



#4 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:52 AM

As we have added new features, we've had to limit the iOS operating systems we support. The first step is to make sure your iOS is the very latest version recommended for your iPad. Next, make sure your Accordance app is the latest version—ditto for all your modules.

 

There is also a problem that sometimes crops up as the app and content are updated. If neither of the previous suggestions solved your issues, open the system Settings app. Scroll to Accordance, and turn on "Remove Saved Session" and "Clear Download Cache." Quit the Accordance app [Go to your home screen, double-click so the active apps appear at the bottom of the screen, tap and hold on the Accordance app, then tap the minus sign (—) when it appears. Now relaunch Accordance and see if the problems have disappeared.

 

If none of this works, feel free to call our technical support problem.

 

Note: eventually, we will probably have to abandon support for the earliest iDevices, at least as far as new versions of our app are concerned. it's not that we don't support the iDevices, but that Apple's latest iOS version doesn't do so—and we write the app to take advantage of the latest iOS's features. However, we are not there yet. I am still using an iPad 2 and an iPhone 4S, so I too am several generations out of date.

 

Whatever else we do, eventually, you and I will both have to upgrade to newer iDevices, relegating our old ones to less demanding tasks: a slideshow of family pictures? a phone or tablet for one of our children?


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#5 revtim

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:50 PM

I have been using Accordance on my 1st gen iPad since the app has been out. I have not experienced any major issues. The app does on rare occasion act up, but nothing that would make me even think of moving to a different app.


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Tim Hall

#6 justin4jesus

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

Glad to hear some are not having major problems, unfortunately many are. I also appreciate the tips Timothy but that does not solve the problem, I do have work arounds in place but it's quite a nuisance and something I shouldn't have to do.

 

I do understand the need to move past certain "older" systems but my point is that apps like Logos and Olive Tree (the latter out shining and out performing Accordance in many areas) maintain support for older IOS versions. They build their software around the hardware and NOT changing IOS features (especially since IOS 6 technically should have been IOS 5.5). This is a highly successful model that is used with IOS and Android.

 

Olive Tree has been making mobile apps for a very long time, much longer that the smart phone landscape of today and they manage to support older systems longer without sacrifice of features. If you read the "using iPhone" thread on this forum you will see just how many Accordance users are still forced to use Olive Tree.

 

By following the flawed Apple model you may find yourself loosing users and not gaining others. If it were not for the upcoming Windows release of Accordance and the ability of Windows 8; I myself would strongly consider moving back to competing products.

 

Mobile devices are supposed to make things easier and give greater access to information, if we have to change them every two years or we have to start jumping through hoops to get our apps to function, then very soon we stop using those devices and apps.



#7 Rick Bennett

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:26 AM

Glad to hear some are not having major problems, unfortunately many are. I also appreciate the tips Timothy but that does not solve the problem, I do have work arounds in place but it's quite a nuisance and something I shouldn't have to do.

 

I do understand the need to move past certain "older" systems but my point is that apps like Logos and Olive Tree (the latter out shining and out performing Accordance in many areas) maintain support for older IOS versions. They build their software around the hardware and NOT changing IOS features (especially since IOS 6 technically should have been IOS 5.5). This is a highly successful model that is used with IOS and Android.

 

Olive Tree has been making mobile apps for a very long time, much longer that the smart phone landscape of today and they manage to support older systems longer without sacrifice of features. If you read the "using iPhone" thread on this forum you will see just how many Accordance users are still forced to use Olive Tree.

 

By following the flawed Apple model you may find yourself loosing users and not gaining others. If it were not for the upcoming Windows release of Accordance and the ability of Windows 8; I myself would strongly consider moving back to competing products.

 

Mobile devices are supposed to make things easier and give greater access to information, if we have to change them every two years or we have to start jumping through hoops to get our apps to function, then very soon we stop using those devices and apps.

 

If you interpreted Tim's comments to mean that we are no longer supporting the iPad 1, then you misunderstood him. Our only limitation is that the device be compatible with iOS 5 or higher. This does mean that users of older devices (certain iPod Touch models, iPhone, iPhone 3G) are no longer supported. This shift to iOS 5 as the minimum version was also adapted by OliveTree and Logos because Apple made it nearly impossible to support iOS 4 and lower. That has not been dictated with respect to the iPad 1.

 

That said, we have stated that there may be issues that users of the iPad 1 specifically are more prone to experience, and we will continue to look into it. However, the fact that it is not universal for all users (even of the iPad 1) makes it more difficult to both diagnose and fix.

 

I hope this helps to clarify things.


Rick Bennett
Director of Content Development
iOS Working Group


#8 justin4jesus

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:29 PM

I am using latest version for iPad 1 - 5.1.1 and the issues are with that. I imagine that the iPad 1 users that are not experiencing problems may not be using the app to the extent others of us are.

 

Forgive my ignorance, please help me to understand how Apple not supporting an OS affects your ability to support it. This is something foreign to the Android/open system world and perhaps my compliants are ill-founded. If Apple is preventing you from writing for OS 5 then I appologize and will patiently wait.

 

That being said, there is still a problem in the more recent versions of Accordance that were not there previously. Can this be corrected in OS 5 or are we stuck; also how much longer will OS 5 be supported if you know?



#9 Scott Knapp

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:16 PM

Apple makes the toolchain and SDK (software development kit) to support building applications on iOS.  If these tools don't support older iOS versions than we can't support them.  For example, the latest developer tools needed to target the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 dropped support for iOS versions earlier than iOS 4.3.

 

Further, the iOS development team is small and as such we need to set a reasonable set of support goals since major iOS versions introduce several changes under the hood that make supporting a wide range of iOS releases more difficult particularly as we add new features (like iCloud and Dropbox) and refine current features.  As the development lead for this platform, I've set a policy of supporting two major iOS versions at a time.  The current version (which is now iOS 6) and one major version back (which is iOS 5).  If we can easily support further back we will, but it is not a goal.

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, I have a first generation iPad running the same iOS 5 version as you are.  I've seen this bug in practice testing the app, and even when debugging the app.  I believe this is a memory related bug introduced in iOS 5.1 and affects us when large amounts of memory are being used.  The first generation iPad has the toughest memory usage of all iOS devices since it only has 256MB of memory and a large display which needs to share this memory with the OS and the running application.  I have tried to workaround this issue in the latest version but further changes may take more of a code rewrite.  The question is whether it makes sense to spend time on this rewrite given that the issue appears to only be affecting a very small portion of our iOS app user base.  This is based on the the number of bug and crash reports we get anonymously from Apple, forwarded by our tech support, and noted in these user forums that show this as an issue.

 

Now, we don't like it when our app doesn't work the way it should, so I will try to block out some time again to see what more can be done to improve the situation.

 

Thanks for the feedback,

 

Scott.



#10 justin4jesus

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:39 AM

I appreciate the response Scott, and the information. I understand completely if you're dealing with a small team that you must prioritize your time. Unfortunately though, since very few actually have usage data going to Apple - and there is no way to report a failure like the Android model - that's a hard way to manage your resources. So, like you said, feedback here would be your best indicator. Hence my call to iPad 1 users. I hope that adding features is based upon user feedback as well.

 

Yes, the iPad 1 is hard on memory (a battle Apple has always struggled with) and a simple memory flush before opening Accordance seems to prevent failure most of the time. But, if it's an OS bug like you say, then perhaps we are at an impasse.

 

My iPad is jailbroken and I have several low level system tools installed. I'm currently testing multiple memory management tools and will post my findings here. My hope is to find a solution that does not require a jailbreak that will free up memory on the fly. Something other users can install easily allowing them to use Accordance without jumping through hoops.

 

Thanks for the responses!


Edited by justin4jesus, 22 March 2013 - 07:43 AM.


#11 Scott Knapp

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:55 AM

Your assumption that few users allow crash reports to be sent to Apple anonymously is incorrect. This has been a valuable tool to diagnose and fix both critical and non-critical bugs. By also jail breaking your device, you run the risk of further exacerbating or even introducing system level bugs. On several occasions I have dealt with users having unusual problems with the app that magically go away when the jailbreak is removed. So while I understand how this problem can be frustrating to you, you'll also have to understand that when I see reported user problems on devices that are jail broken, it sends up a red flag for me. Scott



#12 justin4jesus

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:11 PM

I'm sure the feedback is a valuable too, I am well aware of the use they can be. But I can tell you with cetainty the most users DO NOT opt in to send reports to Apple. Apple themselves can confirm this. Also, since we are not dealing with a crash in Accordance but a bug; you will never see it in a crash report. It never gets sent because it's not recognized as a failure. The only hope is that a user is sending anonymous usage reports and that Apple links the problem to Accordance and then sends a report to you. Something I don't imagine you see a lot of.


As far as jailbreaking, it was done after the problems with Accordance and are not the cause. If you understand whats involved in a jail break and what is actually changed you would know that jailbreaking alone does not cause mysterious problems with apps. Users may introduce problems or rogue apps that can cause issue but I can asure you I am not one. I have simply gained root level access to work around Apple's file level restrictions and to gain access to logs and memory level reports. None of which affect the system or apps.

Edited by justin4jesus, 23 March 2013 - 04:12 PM.


#13 Scott Knapp

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:11 PM

All due respect, you cannot tell me whether or not most of our users that experience problems opt in or out of sending crash reports either anonymously via Apple or directly via our support routes. 

 

And I'm fully aware of what is involved with jail breaking an iOS device. I've done it a few times to try to track down mysterious app bugs that users have reported when I've suspected that is the cause.  Which it has been at least once in my experience.  Now that is not to say that this always happens, or that all users are jail breaking for the wrong reasons.  But please don't tell me something doesn't happen that I have reproduced myself on my own devices.

 

Jailbroken or not, root access or not, access to logs and memory level reports or not, you are not going to be able to fix the problem you are having with our app.  That's my job.  I know where it is happening and why.  The only question is whether or not it's worth the time and effort to rewrite a chunk of code to workaround what I believe is a OS level bug to support a very small number of users on an older device.

 

Scott.



#14 justin4jesus

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

I can tell you the number of IOS devices in US and what percentage allow reporting. If we are such a small numbee on such an old device I guess the answer to the question to this original post is yes...



#15 justin4jesus

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:52 PM

Allow me to apologize. There is no sense bickering over this. Please forgive me and keep up the good work.


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