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#1 Ken Han

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 12:04 PM

I appreciate the AccUpdater widget. I feel like you've done something very nice for your users and instead of thanks I am complaining about it with this post. Still, I've been carefully following the various developments with Accordance, applying the latest patches, etc. I receive the official e-mail alerts, check the forum several times a day, and check the blog at least a few times a week. So it was a shock to see how many of the modules I owned were outdated, even some that were purchased fairly recently. I had no idea!

It makes me realize how much time I spend on maintaining Accordance these days. Just too much. I seem to spend a fair bit of effort trying to work out widget kinks one day, user tools kinks the next day, well, you get the idea. Perhaps this is the price I pay for being an early adopter. And to some extent, I can live with it. Still, may I request that Accordance place an automatic upgrade mechanism for the modules and tools already installed? There is no reason why in this day and age that I need to find some upgrades from a CD rom I do not own (CD roms I have now are obviously obsolete) while some other module upgrades need to be manually downloaded.

It seems to me the whole point of Accordance (and other softwares like it) is saving time. What I mean is there is little (if any) that Accordance can do that you cannot do with manual research. It just saves a lot of time and eliminates human mistakes. So if time saving is its primary value (which I appreciate hugely), please apply this logic to maintaining the software and the modules.

Sincerely, and please note, with thanks for all that you are already doing excellently,

Edited by rev.ken.han, 01 August 2006 - 12:10 PM.


#2 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 12:50 PM

On a side note, I noticed that in the AccUpdater widget it shows me that my current BDB is 3.0 and 2.9 is available. I think that's a minor bug. Also, it prompts me to update some modules, like Gospels (Lightfoot) for example, to version 1.1, and the updater tells me to look on my Library 6 CD-ROM. I know I installed it from the CD-ROM, so I'm not sure where to go next. Is that an update coming in Library 7 that isn't technically available yet, or am I missing something?

I really appreciate the widget. Rarely do I ever have any kinks to work out in Accordance, but maybe I don't have all the modules that Ken has to update or I don't use notes/tools as extensively.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Robb Brunansky

#3 John Koontz

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 02:21 PM

I believe that automatic or downloadable updates to modules is one area that Accordance lacks in. I was also pretty surprised to see that several of my modules needed updating. Oh well, you learn something new everyday.
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#4 Helen Brown

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 02:41 PM

Well, it does seem as if in trying to help users we have opened a can of worms! Just listing the upgrades each user may need required a lot of work. Now you want us to greatly expand the bandwidth, post hundreds of modules on line, and make it possible to run your Accordance and get each module update as it is released, at no charge, naturally.

At least we do collect all the typos and errors you report, we do update the modules from time to time, and we do make them available at nominal cost. For most CD-ROMs it is $10 each time, only the Library is more since we always add more content.

We try to announce each upgrade that is important. Sometimes we rerelease a CD with minor corrections and we do not advertise it since we do not want to make you feel like you must pay for minimal corrections. If a small module has important and urgent corrections, we do post it online and let you know.

Yes, Robb, there are some discrepancies between the posted version on line, and the one you get in the updater, some due to minor errors in the module which we will fix as each module is rereleased. If there are errors online I will correct those ASAP.

Please understand that installing and upgrading Accordance is complicated because we offer so many options. If we had a single package life would be much simpler, but is that really what y'all want?
Helen Brown
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#5 Mick Matousek

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 05:18 PM

Well, it does seem as if in trying to help users we have opened a can of worms! Just listing the upgrades

No! We greatly appreciate the ability to target files which are outdated. Yes! This brings a different set of technical issues. However, there will be many other opportunities which will gradually reduce other tech support calls. For instance, my posting earlier this morning about the ProperNoun posting, would have been resolved locally by the information provided by the AccUpdater widget.

Now, I know which files are outdated and more importantly, how far outdated. I'm not so concerned about files that are version 1.4 vs 1.5, but I had files which were dated 1999, almost seven years back. I guess I've lazily assumed the installers did more updating than they actually updated. Now AccUpdater points it out easily. As someone pointed out, none of us want to become professional module librarians. AccUpdater is a good start.

I'm not a widget person. In fact they are disabled 100% of the time. But in this case, I'll enable them occasionally so I can stay current and take advantage of bug fixes.

Edited by Mick Matousek, 01 August 2006 - 05:19 PM.


#6 R. Mansfield

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 05:42 PM

I've got 19 modules out of date! I feel like such a slacker!

We should hold a contest to see who has the most out of date modules.
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#7 Jim S

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 06:30 PM

I also hardly use widgets. I tried the Updater widget just now. I clicked on GNT-T since it's included in the list which showed up. It brought up a page showing apparently the latest version (3.1). But I did install it from the 6.9 cd which listed on the web page. Where do I get 3.1?

#8 Helen Brown

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 08:15 PM

Some modules, such as GNT-T are newer on the Studienbibel, and will be updated shortly on the Scholar's Collection. I did not list it as the upgrade path on the website as no one would buy that CD in order to upgrade. However, it is possible to figure that out by checking the Accordance version on each CD-ROM that has that module on it.
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#9 Alistair

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:14 AM

Now you want us to greatly expand the bandwidth, post hundreds of modules on line, and make it possible to run your Accordance and get each module update as it is released, at no charge, naturally.


Actually, yes. Seriously. And not only because it will be easier for us, the purchasers and users of Accordance.

When you consider the costs of burning, duplicating, packaging and posting the CDs, plus paying staff to do so (I assume you pay your staff!), then it must be easier and cheaper to make the files available online for download.

Also, users needn't download the entire file, but could instead use a small patch program to add the changes to their modules. If, as you say, the changes are minor anyway, then the patch needn't be larger than a coupla hundred k at most.

Having said that, the AccUpdater widget is excellent, but it only does half the job.

Telling me what's broke isn't much help unless it can actually fix it by downloading the up-to-date module. I don't want to be scrabbling about sorting through CDs looking for this file or that file. Neither do I want to pay for another CD to be shipped to me for the sake of a handful of 0.1 updates.

The Internet is The Future! Embrace it! Make it serve you! Learn to love it!

Edited by Alistair, 02 August 2006 - 09:33 AM.


#10 Helen Brown

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:51 AM

Patches can be nearly as large as the module, and they are different for each version they have to update, so that gets to be more complicated for us and the user. We do offer them when appropriate, there is one now on the Module updates webpage.

However, we will try to post more of the significant upgrades for download in the future.
Helen Brown
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#11 Tom

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:48 AM

This has been a topic of discussion for a long time. See this thread for some interesting replies from Helen:

http://www.accordanc...e...pic=422&hl=

I am not sure many more downloads have been added since this discussion, even though, like in this thread, they have been promised.

I must say, my position on this issue has mellowed with time. I do believe Helen when she says this is a lot easier said then done and that they do not offer their modules this way to make money. On the other hand, it would be SO MUCH easier and coinvent (and less costly) to the end user to offer all modules online.

I've never been told if it is a matter of simply dragging and dropping a new module on an old one to update it. If so, could I not just do this manually or the updater do that for me, and hence any single module could be posted online and downloaded and updated this way?

Helen I KNOW you all work HARD, I LOVE the product. Do what you think is best.

Tom
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#12 Ken

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 06:56 PM

I have to agree with Alistair here. Most software programs I use or test, including BW and Logos, provide automatic updates, at least until a major version change. Certainly I think it's fine for OakTree to reach a point at which buying a new CD is necessary, so e.g. modules installed with v.6 CD-ROMs might patch automatically until v.7 CD-ROMs are released, at which point users would have to buy a v.7 CD-ROM to continue to get regular patches but, otherwise, I think it really is important that OakTree find an easier, simpler way for users to patch their modules and indeed to download fixes and patches for the Accordance engine.

#13 Helen Brown

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 07:12 PM

We have now released the version 7 CD-ROMs with probably over a hundred module updates as well as over 30 nw modules. That is why so many are now showing up in the widget. It is time to buy the CD-ROMs.
Helen Brown
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