12 replies to this topic

[Mike]

Hi. I just got Logos 3.3 Scholar's Edition and decided to do a check on comparing it with Accordance. I am a pastor. I want to parse Greek and Hebrew, do word studies in the original languages, and read from the LXX and Greek as well as Hebrew. I read somewhere that Accorance is superior, but the price points are also astoundingly different. Logos 3.3 Scholar's edition is $600.00 while Accordance is $1700.00. It doesn't seem fair to compare the two since one is priced 3x more. Or, am I incorrect? Will the $199.00 Accordance Scholar's package do the same thing, better, than the Logos 3.3 Scholar's edition? Your input is most welcome!

Kindly,
Mike

[stoessel]

Mike,

When price comparistons arise, it is a can of worms. Direct comparisons are difficult. I have always found that the Accordance prodoct, point for point, is fairly priced. Until you invest in, and then spend a significant amount of time using, BOTH products, you won't know which is truly the best for your purposes. Few of us will be able to make that kind of comparison.

About 8 years ago, I happened to do just that. For me, at that time, price was not a consideration. Function was. The Accordance interface was much faster and more intuitive than Logos. But that was then. I do not know now whether the situation has changed, but I personally doubt it. Accordance continually comes out with improvements in interface and new texts. If there is a difference in cost, I would bet that there is a difference in "what you get" for the cost.

Peace, Ed Stoessel
Long time satisfied Accordance user

[Robb Brunansky]

I'm no expert on Logos, but after scanning through what comes in their Scholar's package, I think you could assemble a comparable package in Accordance if you bought the Scholar's Core Bundle and the Premier level of Library 6 (although I'd personally wait until Library 7 comes out, probably in a few weeks). That would cost you $469 less 10% if you are a full-time pastor. You could add a tagged LXX for $80 ($72 as a full-time pastor), and you'd still be spending less. From what you described regarding your use of Bible software, I think that would be more "bang for your buck" then spending $600 on Logos, which includes many resources that I doubt you'd find useful. I don't think you'd find any of the Accordance resources superfluous in Library 7 or the Scholar's Core bundle. For an extra $210 (less 10%) you could have all the pseudepigraphal books as well, including non-canonical gospels, all tagged and fully searchable.

When you're considering Bible software, the number of resources should not be the deciding factor. The most important thing is getting resources you really need and will use and having an interface that makes those resources most accessible to you in the most efficient way. In my opinion, Accordance is way ahead of the competition (including Logos) in this regard. Just one example from Version 7 that is an amazing new feature that has no counterpart in Logos: root search. Watch the new features demo to see how it works. It will amaze you and make you want to start searching the Bible yourself for Greek and Hebrew roots.

One final comment: Accordance is much faster than Logos. If I were to describe the Logos interface and speed in a word, I would call it "clunky." Even on their video demo it takes seemingly forever for it to finish searching the library. If I were you, I'd give Accordance another look, and perhaps give customer service a call to find a package that fits your needs and price range. I'm sure your Logos package would sell on eBay

Disclaimer: I do not work for Oak Tree. I just think they make the best Bible software for any platform.

Edited by Robb Brunansky, 06 August 2006 - 07:59 PM.

[David Lang]

Mike,

Logos now has three "Scholar's" packages, and you're comparing the cheapest of the three with the Unlock All option on the Accordance Scholar's CD-ROM. That's hardly an equivalent comparison.

The Unlock All option is really designed for institutions and high-end specialists who want every tagged original language text and lexicon contained on the Accordance Scholar's CD-ROM (many of which are not available for Logos at all). It's not an option we really emphasize or expect many people to choose, but it's there for those who want it. If you don't need grammatically tagged editions of the Mishna, Targums, Pseudepigrapha, Apocryphal Gospels, etc., etc., you shouldn't even be considering the Unlock All option.

The Accordance Scholar's CD-ROM is not intended to be a one-size-fits-all, we've-decided-what-you-get, kind of package. Rather, it's designed to let you pick and choose the modules you need without paying for a bunch of stuff you don't. Robb has given some excellent suggestions for how you can put together a good combination of modules. I just wanted to explain the philosophy behind the way we've put together our Scholar's CD-ROM.

[William Varner]

Hi. I just got Logos 3.3 Scholar's Edition and decided to do a check on comparing it with Accordance. I am a pastor. I want to parse Greek and Hebrew, do word studies in the original languages, and read from the LXX and Greek as well as Hebrew. I read somewhere that Accorance is superior, but the price points are also astoundingly different. Logos 3.3 Scholar's edition is $600.00 while Accordance is $1700.00. It doesn't seem fair to compare the two since one is priced 3x more. Or, am I incorrect? Will the $199.00 Accordance Scholar's package do the same thing, better, than the Logos 3.3 Scholar's edition? Your input is most welcome!

Kindly,
Mike

Mike,

I have been around the Logos/Bibleworks PC world for quite awhile. I am a user of Accordance for only a year - since I got a Mac. I go back to the days when Logos and BW came on 5 1/2 floppies (and only acouple of them!!), and beta tested for both programs. So I have seen them grow. For years Logos made no real effort to keep up with the scholarly tools. They seemed satisfied to build a big library of all sorts of commentaries, etc. with a low level of serious, language based tools. About 5-7 years ago, they made a commitment to really ratchet up those tools, and they are doing a good job at it. Their interface has always been clunky and comparatively slow. Reviews over the years comparing Logos with BW all seemed to conclude with the same mantra: If you want a big online library, go with Logos. If you want serious language based study, go with BW. Now with Logos 3, they are pulling even with BW.

But you have asked about Logos in relation to Accordance. I think that after a year of using Accordance, I can weigh in with an opinion. I have kept my mouth shut until I learned it and also got more comfortable with my MAC. For ease of use and concording capabilities, Accordance is better. For pricing, Logos is more economical. Yes, as Robb says, you must compare apples with apples (no pun intended). I don't see how you can bring your Accoradnce package to the level of really serious study with the right tools for less than $1000. I know some in this forum will disagree with me, but that is my opinion, and it is based on using Bible software now for nearly 20 years. You can get the next to top level in Logos for less than $1000. BUT, cost is not the only factor to consider.

The Accordance interface is better. The graphical search engine is better. And as hard as it is for a long time PC user to admit, the Mac is better. If you stick with the PC world, my money still goes on BibleWorks, esp. with their version 7 (but the Accordance graphical search engine is better than BW's).

So there, I have outed my self. I have probably said enough to make everyone mad at me, but I think I do have some experience here that qualifies me to offer an opinion.

I guess you must ask the following question: So, am I going to use my PC or my Mac? You see, I use both because I am a professor and I should be able to advise my students on the three serious Bible programs.

I am sure this discussion will continue.

Dr. William Varner
Professor of Greek Exegesis
Director of Israel Bible Extension Program
The Masters College

[Jason Schultz]

I USED to be a Logos user. At my Seminary they were pushing it as the best tool for exegesis and digital libraries. I bought their scholars pack and a copy of Luther's Works for Libronix and as a digital reference tool for searching it is ok.

HOWEVER! When my attention was turned to hardcore exegesis Logos just didn't do it for me. Half the time the Hebrew was parsed weird or not at all and the search engine was cumbersome and slow - a real resource hog on the system. Granted I had a celeron laptop running it - but my class mate with a pentium 4 had the same "molasses" experience. Then I found out about Accordance, downloaded the demo and was ASTOUNDED at how simple and fast the searches were and how accurate the parsing is. I was immediately sold.

I bought the scholars package and it has done pretty much everything Logos did - exept better!

The thing with Logos is that it comes with a ton of stuff you probably won't use. Accordance gives you the basic parsing/searching engine that is light, fast and accurate. There isn't a better exegesis tool out there.
Plus, you get to run it on a Mac which is always better all the time!

j ><>

[mbcvida]

I have used both the Libronix/Logos packages and Accordance for a number of years. Accordance has been the dominant package in terms of original language capabilities. I now have the Logos 3 Original language module and also use Accordance 7.0. With the new syntactical databases being offered in the new Logos packages, Logos has taken a great step forward. The syntactical databases allow for searches that cannot be done or easily done in a lexical database. I believe Accordance at some point will want to include this feature in future releases. I would certainly pay extra for it.

Dick Roberts
McKenzie Bible Fellowship

[mythrenegade]

I can't chime in with the same level of detail, but I'll give you this anecdotal experience: In classes at Fuller Seminary the guys around me with Logos are always asking me questions about what this or that verse or greek word says. It's faster for them to ask me than for them to get Logos to do what they want.

I finally made it into a productive challenge. I would show them cool ways I use accordance, and then challenge them to do the same with Logos. It always took them a while, but they could usually get something similar. This was good for them because it got them to use features they had never used before in order to meet my "challenge."

Joel

[John Murphy]

Here is my perspective from the trenches of pastoral ministry. My pastor uses Logos. He demonstrated some of it for me when I was scouting around trying to decide which program to buy. My thoughts. The difference between the two programs can be compared to the difference between Windows and Mac. Mac is faster, and has a better visual interface. Windows has a lot more stuff (junk). Sure Logos has a lot of resources, but are you really going to be reading three volumes of Ancient Egyptian Literature as a pastor? If you have time to do that, you've got too much time on your hands.
You can compare the two programs to a garage. With Logos you have your garage stuffed full, some of it treasures, a lot of it old dusty junk. The difficulty is that you have to wade through all the junk to find what you really want. With Accordance your garage is neat and tidy and you can walk around and grab all the valuable stuff because you don't have a lot of junk cluttering up your garage.
Price? When you compare apples to apples rather than saying, "Yeah, but Accordance doesn't come with all these other resources (i.e. "old dusty junk"), the price is not that much different, but after using Accordance I would pay WAY MORE because it is beautifully done, simple, and fast.

Edited by John Murphy, 17 November 2006 - 02:17 PM.

[mbcvida]

I am not questioning the superior interface capabilities of the Accordance program over the Logos package. The issue that Accordance is going to have to address is that of syntactical databases. Logos now has the capability to do syntactical rather than merely lexical searches, on a clause level rather than a word level. Sure the interface is still clunky, its still slow, and all that, but the software now includes capabilities which Accordance does not yet have. Check the blog site at Logos.com and view some of the syntactical search videos that illustrate some of the searches which can be done. Hopefully Accordance can integrate a syntactical database in the near future. For those doing original language work, it will become a must-have.

Now don't go hammering me about the superiority of Accordance over all other Bible software programs. I already know and acknowledge that. I am merely stating the fact that the capability to do a syntactical search is a significant asset in a Bible software program and a program which lacks that capability will be at a disadvantage. No I don't work for Logos, neither do I think it equals Accordance. But as one who actually uses both programs I can say the syntactical search features are quite impressive in the Logos package.

[Helen Brown]

We are certainly looking into implementing searching of this kind, but we need to consider how to do it in a way that is easy and elegant to use.

[jackcav]

We are certainly looking into implementing searching of this kind, but we need to consider how to do it in a way that is easy and elegant to use.

I also use both Logos & Accordance, I believe that you must implement syntactical search capability to remain the premier Bible Study application.

Jack Caviness

[mbcvida]

We are certainly looking into implementing searching of this kind, but we need to consider how to do it in a way that is easy and elegant to use.

I am fully confident that your product, when released, will be outstanding in ease of use and power. Trying to use the syntactical searches in the Logos product is quite demanding with a steep learning curve. I look forward to this feature and yet realize that many factors must be addressed in order to provide such a product.