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crasis forms in analysis


Λύχνις Δαν

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Hi ya,

 

Another spin off of the 3rd class conditionals thread.

 

If I use the following search : =ἐάν_1@ [tag conjunction conditional] I get this analysis output if I include inflected form and tag data :

 

Total number of verses = 261
(total number of verses displayed = 261)

=ἐάν_1@ [tag conjunction conditional] (285 total words)

ἐάν_1 (εἰ, ἄν_1) if = 285
ἐάν = 44
Conjunction subordinating (conditional) = 44
ἐὰν = 215
Conjunction subordinating (conditional) = 215
Ἐάν = 1
Conjunction subordinating (conditional) = 1
Ἐὰν = 10
Conjunction subordinating (conditional) = 10
χρασισ = 15
Conjunction subordinating (conditional) = 15

Note the last entry : χρασισ is not a word which appears in the GNT28-T. I cannot search for it. I'm pretty sure it represents the crasis forms of εαν-1, as in και εαν rendered καν in Mark 5:28.

 

If I'm correct the reporting in the analysis could use some improvement. I'm not 100% sure what to suggest - er - well how about listing each crasis form and its counts ? Of course if I'm wrong could someone explain what I'm seeing ?

 

Thx

D

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From the Help (You are here: Biblical Research and Analyses > Work with Grammatically Tagged Text > Work with Greek Tagged Text > Entering Greek Lexical, Inflected, and Root Forms):

 

Search for Crasis
You can search for examples of crasis where two words are combined into one such as καγω (και + εγω) (and I). The crasis tag is attached to the second word of the combination and can be found by searching for its transliteration in quotation marks: "χρασις".

To find examples of crasis beginning with και search for και "χρασις".
To find examples ending with εγω search for εγω@"χρασις". Both of these searches will find καγω, as will a search for "καγω".

 

 

Hopefully that makes sense! I'd expand on it more, but I'm no Greek expert (or amateur). I will say you can do some interesting things. Try selecting the crasis form in the Analysis and doing Amplify -> Search Current Resource. This will do an 'Analysis Amplify' that will show you those specific terms. Note, it uses your selection and what's above it, so you need to select "conditional" to eliminate the explanatory use of the crasis ean.

 

Or, you could try eliminating the other terms with a search like: =εαν_1@[CONJUNCTION conditional] @-"εαν"

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Hey Joel thanx for this. I try to be good and use the doc. and then .... oh well ooops.

 

The Amplify thing is really cool. I notice it amplifies to a new WS.

 

Its a good thing crasis transliterated isn't a real word.

 

Thx

D

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Hi Daniel, without trying to be too pedantic, oh wait, yes I am. :P

 

χρασις Is a real Greek word, as can be seen from the Perseus entry below. It's just not in our current koiné corpus. If we include more classical sources in the future that will have to be taken into account.

 

κρᾶσις εως, ἡ (Ion. κρῆσις Hp.Vict.1.32): (κεράννυμι):—

A.mixing, blending of things which form a compound, as wine and water, opp. mechanical mixture (defined as anεἶδος μίξεως in which the constituents are liquids, Arist.Top.122b26, cf. Stoic.2.153; περὶ κράσεως, title of work byAlex.Aphr.): first in A., “τὴν δευτέραν γε κ. ἥρωσιν νέμω” Fr.55, cf. Staphyl.9, Ath.10.426b (pl.); κράσεις ἠπίωνἀκεσμάτων modes of compounding . . , A. Pr.482; “ἡ τῶν ἐναντίων κ.” Pl. Lg.889c; “τὴν τῶν νεύρων φύσιν ἐξὀστοῦ καὶ σαρκὸς κράσεως . . συνεκεράσατο” Id.Ti.74d; “ἐκ κράσεως πρὸς ἄλληλα” Id.Tht.152d; “τὴν ἁρμονίαν κ.καὶ σύνθεσιν ἐναντίων εἶναι” Arist. de An.407b31; “χρωμάτων ἀκριβὴς κ.” Luc.Zeux.5, cf. Arist.Col.792a4.

 

etc etc

 

The link to the rest of the entry is here

Edited by Ken Simpson
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Hi Ken,

 

But not with the χρασις spelling but with a kappa I see. I didn't check for variant spellings or check the origin of crasis. Good to know. In the way its transliterated it avoids the clash with a real spelling so you should be good for the future also though it might get too close for comfort I agree. I think I'd not have done it this way and left it in English, but it works it seems.

 

Thx

D

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True. you know, I was sure there was a greek word χρασις, but I can't find it now. The k completely missed my gaze on my iphone..

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You know, on closer reading of LSJ, it even has a section for the grammatical term under κρᾶσις not χρασις. Looks like the problem is completely moot. My sincerest embarrassment.

 

Look before you leap Ken...

 

 

5 Gramm., crasis, i.e. the combination of the vowels of two syllables into one long vowel or diphthong, e.g. τοὕνομα for τὸ ὅνομα, ἁνήρ for ὁ ἀνήρ, τἆρα for τοι ἄρα, A.D.Adv.128.2, EM822.56, etc.; also, synaeresis of vowels, e.g. εὗ for ἐΰ, ib.392.54; but opp. ἔκθλιψις and συναίρεσις, An.Ox.1.371.

 

“κρᾶσις κρῆσις,” LSJ, 990.

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I must say I hate it when that happens too Ken but no harm done as they say.

 

Anyhow I still think it would nice to have the crasis busted out in the analysis rather than simply being bundled under this title.

Its probably my level of Greek but I'd find it help to see the prepositions (etc.) included in the crasis analysis rather than just the major second word form as below :

 

Total number of verses = 136
(total number of verses displayed = 136)

*@"=χρασισ" (143 total words)

Number of different forms = 7:

ἐάν_1 (εἰ, ἄν_1) if = 16
ἐγώ I (sg.); we (pl.) = 82
ἐκεῖ there = 10
ἐκεῖθεν (ἐκεῖ, θεν) from there = 10
ἐκεῖνος (ἐκεῖ) that, that one, he = 22
ἐναντίον (ἐν, ἀντί) (+gen) before = 2
ὄνομα name = 1

But once I get on a bit I suspect I'll be more familiar and I can at least find them when needed.

 

I'll note that ID for crasis words seem to give the definition of the first (prep., art, etc) rather than the meaning of the combine term.

For example τοὐναντίον has this ID :

 

τοὐναντίον ὁ Article neut sing nom the, who, which

[ESVS] G3588 contrary

 

this is mildly confusing and were it not for the key numbered gloss a beginner might be confused. In fact given it one might be confused for the contradiction.

In fact it might be nice if ID indicated that this was a crasis and what the components were.

 

Anyhow enough whining from me. Off to study vocab.

 

Thx

D

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have not done the tagging of the morphology myself, but I have discussed this issue with Rex Koivisto a few years ago. The word crasis is understood as an English word, not as the Greek word κρᾶσις. Why then does it appear in Greek characters? Simply because it appears in the "inflected form" field, that is usually taken by a Greek inflected word.

 

This is also why you can find a crasis only by surrounding it with commas, as in 'crasis' or "crasis".

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  • 2 years later...

Hi,

 

I have question connected to 'crasis'.

I was preparing a small exercise about 'crasis' in LXX (Rahlfs).

During the research I found something like that - just an example:

 

ἄν = 619

ἄν = 19

Particle = 19

ἂν = 599

Particle = 599

crasis = 1

Particle = 1 (?)

 

or

 

Κἂν = 3

Adverb = 2 (4Mac 10,18; Sir 16,11)

Conjunction coordinating = 1 (4Mac 2,9)

κἂν = 13

Adverb = 4 (Wis 14,4; Wis 15,12; Sir 3,13; Sir 14,7)

Conjunction coordinating = 9 (Lev 7,16; 4Mac 2,8; 4Mac 2,9; Wis 4,4; Wis 9,6; Sir 9,13; Sir 13,23; Sir 23,11; Sir 33,29)

crasis = 1

κἂν Adverb = 1 (?)

 

 

The question marks are mine and are my question. How could I identify the entries which I marked with question mark?
Thanks for your (sure) patience and (possible) answer.
 
Roman
 
Accordance 11.1.4
iMac 27" Retina
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If you display the word under the tag, and then select the word and search in the text, it will search for the word with all its sort criteria. However, I am not able to reproduce your list showing the Crasis tag, to confirm how to do this.

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Does *@[particle] @"=χρασισ" get you what you need ?

 

Μακκαβ. Δ 8·10 κατελεήσατε οὖν ἑαυτούς, οὓς καὶ ὁ πολέμιος ἔγωγε καὶ τῆς ἡλικίας καὶ τῆς εὐμορφίας οἰκτίρομαι.
Μακκαβ. Δ 16·6 Ὦ μελέα ἔγωγε καὶ πολλάκις τρισαθλία, ἥτις ἑπτὰ παῖδας τεκοῦσα οὐδενὸς μήτηρ γεγένημαι.
Ἰώβ 29·22     ἐπὶ δὲ τῷ ἐμῷ ῥήματι οὐ προσέθεντο, περιχαρεῖς δὲ ἐγίνοντο, ὁπόταν αὐτοῖς ἐλάλουν·
 

I think Job is the one for the first entry you have above. The particle will have to be changed to adverb or something similar. But like Helen I am not exactly sure how you got the first list and that would help in confirming how to get the exact detail you want.

 

Thx

D

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Helen, Daniel - 

 

Thanks for yours answers! I appreciate the help.

Daniel's answer gave me a help and - in fact - it was Job 29,22 I was looking for in the first example and Esth 11,10 [1:1i] in the second.

 

Now I will explain, how I get my results (it was just an example).

First I prepared a full LXX analysis and (2) then I have chosen  "χρασισ", (3) prepared in different window a concordance and (4) associate the results to the previous research. It is bit longer way but useful. Doing so, I found myself in difficulty how to associate what was meant 'crasis' (I changed it from greek characters into latin).

 

But a paradigm offered by Daniel solved my question.

 

Thanks to both of you!

 

Greetings

 

Roman

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  • 4 months later...

Helen, Daniel

 

when looking for adverbs, I found this strange (for me) result:

 

("=καὶ")@ [Adverb] (779 total words)

 

Number of different forms = 2:

 

καί and, also, even, and yet, but = 779

καὶ = 779

Adverb = 778

Adverb (variant)

Conjunction coordinating (copulative) (variant) = 1

 

 

There are no hits for Adverb (variant) - and I don't know what does it mean 'variant' in this case.

I was trying to perform tag search with (variant) - no results.

Then: Conjunction coordinating (copulative) (variant) = 1 - I do not know how it is possible to individualise it or search it?

 

Probably it is simple (as it was in the past), but I will appreciate any help.

 

Regards and greetings

 

Roman

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Sadly there is no way to search for variants, nor for words that have both adverb and conjunction in their tags. However, by narrowing the RANGE command and watching the Analysis, it took just seconds to find the culprit:

 

Luke 3:18
Πολλὰ    πολύς    Adjective neuter plural accusative    Complement    much, many; (adv) more
μὲν    μέν    Particle (alternating)        indeed, on the one hand
οὖν    οὖν    Conjunction coordinating (inferential)        therefore, thus
καὶ    καί    Adverb    Complement    and, also, even, and yet, but
       -           καί    Conjunction coordinating (copulative)    Complement    and, also, even, and yet, but
ἕτερα    ἕτερος    Adjective neuter plural accusative (demonstrative)    Complement    other, another
παρακαλῶν    παρακαλέω (παρά, καλέω)    Verb present active participle masculine singular nominative    Predicate    to urge, exhort, comfort
 

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Helen,

 

thank you.

As always - clear and helpful.

 

- greetings

 

Roman

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  • 1 month later...

Asking for help!

 

1) There is a probable difference between αὐτῷ [Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative in John 13,3 and αὐτῷ [Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative in John 13,6.

In both cases parsing is the same, Analysis shows them as different items. Any suggestion? Or it is done by mistake? (the research was made in NA28 Greek NT (Sigla))

 

2) According to the Analysis in NA28 Greek NT (Sigla) a result of research is following:

 

αὐτῷ = 858

Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative = 833

Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative (variant)

Pronoun (personal) third neuter singular dative (variant) = 19

Pronoun (personal) intensive masculine singular dative = 2

Pronoun (personal) intensive neuter singular dative = 4

 

According to the research in text of NA28 Greek NT (Sigla) it gives for Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative 835 hits and not 833. 

 

I am grateful in advance for any help.

 

Roman

 

(MacOS - 10.11.6

Accordance 11.2.3)

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Hi Roman,

 

  I am not seeing how you are getting different items in Analysis in question 1 above. I do not know how you can tell from a broad query across the NT or even just John. I did a query against Jn 13 in which just to cases of αὐτῷ occur and I then found only one analysis that covered both. I am however not using the identical module. I do not have the NA28 Greek NT (sigla) but I tried the non-sigla NA28 and the UBS5 with sigla. Perhaps what you are seeing is peculiar to the NA28 Greek NT (sigla).

 

  On the second point I think it may be because of the 2 intensive examples not being included in the 833 but included in the 835 ? I see the same against the NA28 Greek. I see the same thing in the neuter cases (19 + 5 intensive giving 24 total).

 

Thx

D

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Hi Daniel,

 

thanks for your answer.

 

I found the result using Range command. It took few minutes to find, that in John 13 we have 18 examples of ("=αὐτῷ")@[Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative].

In Analysis there is a possibility to notice: 

 

Number of different forms = 2:

 

αὐτός he, she, it; self, same; they (when pl) = 18

αὐτῷ = 1

Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative = 1

αὐτῷ = 17

Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative = 17

 

And I was wondering why there are two forms having the same parsing. It was the question (1).

 

Inspiration was (but I can survive:)) that in the broad research in whole the NT (still using NA28 Greek NT (Sigla)) the final outcome was:

 

Number of different forms = 5:

 

αὐτός he, she, it; self, same; they (when pl) = 859

αὐτῷ = 1

Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative = 1

αὐτῷ = 858

Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative = 833

Pronoun (personal) third masculine singular dative (variant)

Pronoun (personal) third neuter singular dative (variant) = 19

Pronoun (personal) intensive masculine singular dative = 2

Pronoun (personal) intensive neuter singular dative = 4

 

Starting from this outcome I was a little bit confused and have begun the research using Range command.

Finally: is John 13,3 or John 13,6 the result marked above in red? Or is there another reason that I am still not understanding?

 

But as said above - I can survive without it :)

 

In any case - Daniel - thanks and respect for your help (not only at this time :) )

 

Roman

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Interesting. I cannot reproduce the issue in 1. I see just one tagging form listed and it accounts for all 18 occurrences of the masc sg dat. It could be a difference between the tagging in the modules. Someone at Oaktree having access to both would have to check it out to be certain. I don't have the module you are using.

 

As to which one is which I would expect that you could do a search over Jn excluding verse 13:3 and then a second time excluding 13:6. You should be able to see how the analysis changes in each case and that should identify which one is responsible.

 

Thx

D

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It is a problem with different spellings for subscript iota that dates to before Unicode.

The module was cleaned many years ago, but apparently this one iota slipped through.

The person that updates the module has corrected the problem, that will be addresses in the next release. 

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