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Why is the Supplement Missing from Liddell & Scott?


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#1 Matt Fredenburg

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:42 PM

Hi,

  are there any plans to have the most recent Liddell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon made available in Accordance? Also, what version of Liddell & Scott is the Accordance version?

 

Thanks,

 

Matt 


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#2 Abram K-J

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 07:37 PM

Matt, there was some discussion of the topic here that may get at what you're asking. I don't know if that will answer your question, but the reason given there was that Accordance didn't have an etext from the publisher for it. Logos has the 1996 revised supplement in their LSJ, and BibleWorks has the supplement, too, so I can only guess that either ( a ) it was exclusively licensed to Logos and BibleWorks (which I'd doubt) or that ( b ) the publisher didn't provide them an etext either, and Logos and BibleWorks just did it themselves.


Also:

 

Dear Accordance forum site operator:

 

It may be time for that letter-b-enclosed-in-parenthesis turning automatically to a smiley face to stop. :)   <----- actual smiley face


Edited by Abram K-J, 19 November 2013 - 07:38 PM.

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#3 Daniel Semler

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 07:50 PM

Does disabling "Enable emoticons" in the post options help ? It didn't in the preview I tried but its supposed to  (b)

 

Well I guess it did.


Edited by Daniel Semler, 19 November 2013 - 07:51 PM.

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Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua

ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν

lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

 

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#4 Abram K-J

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 07:55 PM

Hey, that's great, Daniel--thanks. Too bad there's not a way to do that for all future posts. But it's a small thing, really. I'm sure we'd rather the Accordance staff be doing other things than managing emoticons....


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#5 Daniel Semler

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:12 PM

What I was hoping for was an escape syntax but no such luck it seems.

oh well ... but yes not a priority

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua

ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν

lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

 

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#6 Abram K-J

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:29 PM

Back to Matt's original question--I do think LSJ is a standard enough work that Accordance (especially as it positions itself as having what they call research grade materials) would be better served by having the supplement, especially since it is available electronically elsewhere. Of course, I don't know all that entails from their end, especially if they don't have an etext from the publisher to begin with. Their list of priorities and projects must be long, but an LSJ supplement wouldn't be a bad one to inch its way a little closer to the top, in my opinion.

 

But who knows? Maybe there's not enough demand for it to justify the work of adding in the supplement. I, for one, would rather have Chamberlain's supplemental (to BDAG) LXX lexicon.


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#7 Matt Fredenburg

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:47 PM

Back to Matt's original question--I do think LSJ is a standard enough work that Accordance (especially as it positions itself as having what they call research grade materials) would be better served by having the supplement, especially since it is available electronically elsewhere. Of course, I don't know all that entails from their end, especially if they don't have an etext from the publisher to begin with. Their list of priorities and projects must be long, but an LSJ supplement wouldn't be a bad one to inch its way a little closer to the top, in my opinion.

 

But who knows? Maybe there's not enough demand for it to justify the work of adding in the supplement. I, for one, would rather have Chamberlain's supplemental (to BDAG) LXX lexicon.

Agreed Abram. What I'd like to see (I know I just posted this topic today!) at some point is something definitive from the good folks at Accordance as to what version they're actually selling, whether they have plans to have a true LSJ as Logos does with the Supplement integrated, an ETA, etc.

 

Matt


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#8 Daniel Semler

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:50 PM

Hi Matt, If it helps this is the module info for the LSJ :

 

Liddell, Scott, Jones (Unabridged)

A Greek-English Lexicon (LSJ)

by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott.
Revised and augmented throughout by Sir Henry Stuart Jones with the assistance of Roderick McKenzie

Ninth edition
Oxford University Press, 1940

Text provided by Perseus Digital Library, with funding from The National Endowment for the Humanities. Original version available for viewing and download at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/.

Accordance edition hypertexted and formatted by OakTree Software, Inc.

Version 1.2
 

 

Thx

D
 


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua

ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν

lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

 

Accordance Configurations :
 
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#9 Rick Bennett

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:09 AM

Agreed Abram. What I'd like to see (I know I just posted this topic today!) at some point is something definitive from the good folks at Accordance as to what version they're actually selling, whether they have plans to have a true LSJ as Logos does with the Supplement integrated, an ETA, etc.
 
Matt


Matt, our product page is definitive, and identical to what Daniel posted from the 'About the Text' info in Accordance. Note however that the image on our page is wrong and is being changed now; apologies for any confusion. We were not able to obtain an e-text for it (despite years of working with the publisher on it), so we moved ahead with the version we were able to get. We haven't given up on getting the supplement, but keep in mind; it's just that, a supplement. The core lexicon in all editions is the 9th. It doesn't discount the merit of the supplement, just making it clear that the lexicon is still of great value in the current edition we're offering.

 

We don't have an ETA at this point; we're working on alternatives to getting it short of creating it ourselves, which is very time consuming and expensive.

 

Thanks for the feedback.


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#10 Matt Fredenburg

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:41 AM

Matt, our product page is definitive, and identical to what Daniel posted from the 'About the Text' info in Accordance. Note however that the image on our page is wrong and is being changed now; apologies for any confusion. We were not able to obtain an e-text for it (despite years of working with the publisher on it), so we moved ahead with the version we were able to get. We haven't given up on getting the supplement, but keep in mind; it's just that, a supplement. The core lexicon in all editions is the 9th. It doesn't discount the merit of the supplement, just making it clear that the lexicon is still of great value in the current edition we're offering.

 

We don't have an ETA at this point; we're working on alternatives to getting it short of creating it ourselves, which is very time consuming and expensive.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Hi Rick, thanks so much for the clear explanation! If someone (i.e. me) were to purchase the non-supplement version, when Accordance does (I'm being positive here!) include the Supplement with it, would we be grandfathered in? I just flipped to the inside dust cover of my print edition of the LSJ, and it states the following about the Supplement, which makes the content of the Supplement appear to be rather significant (could be marketing hype though I guess):

 

The Supplement is the culmination of thirteen years of research and constitutes a full revision of the previous 1968 Supplement. Containing over 20,000 entries, the Supplement includes coverage of words and forms from papyri and inscriptions discovered up to the present day. Entries in the Supplement also incorporate Linear B forms for the first time, extending the Lexicon's time span back to 1200 BC.

 

Thanks again,

 

Matt

 

P.S. Not to push my luck, but has Accordance ever considered making a module for this: http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0198642245 (this is the version I have in print, but I guess Oxford reissued it with the same content in two volumes)? I know, nowhere as applicable or relevant as the Greek dictionaries, but there is heavy use of Latin in the older commentaries!


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#11 Rick Bennett

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

Hi Rick, thanks so much for the clear explanation! If someone (i.e. me) were to purchase the non-supplement version, when Accordance does (I'm being positive here!) include the Supplement with it, would we be grandfathered in? I just flipped to the inside dust cover of my print edition of the LSJ, and it states the following about the Supplement, which makes the content of the Supplement appear to be rather significant (could be marketing hype though I guess):

 

The Supplement is the culmination of thirteen years of research and constitutes a full revision of the previous 1968 Supplement. Containing over 20,000 entries, the Supplement includes coverage of words and forms from papyri and inscriptions discovered up to the present day. Entries in the Supplement also incorporate Linear B forms for the first time, extending the Lexicon's time span back to 1200 BC.

 

Thanks again,

 

Matt

 

P.S. Not to push my luck, but has Accordance ever considered making a module for this: http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0198642245 (this is the version I have in print, but I guess Oxford reissued it with the same content in two volumes)? I know, nowhere as applicable or relevant as the Greek dictionaries, but there is heavy use of Latin in the older commentaries!

 

I can't comment on what the pricing might be with the supplement included. I would imagine we could work something out for existing users, but that's speculation at this point. Sorry I don't have a better answer.

 

As for Latin, we're announcing the release of Lewis and Short at ETS/SBL. The product page is already live. :)


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#12 David Knoll

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:03 PM

Great News!



#13 Jim T

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

I cannot comment definitively on how Accordance will present the supplement, but I wouldn't expect a merging option like Logos has done. There are significant problems with such a merger (most significantly of which is the difference in lexicographical methodology). Point of example would be LXX entries (of which LSJ is of little value). What is more, I was also informed last year at SBL that Logos' merger of the supplement was not well received by the active Scholars who contributed to the Supplement.



#14 Matt Fredenburg

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:07 PM

Hi Matt, If it helps this is the module info for the LSJ :

 

Liddell, Scott, Jones (Unabridged)

A Greek-English Lexicon (LSJ)

by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott.
Revised and augmented throughout by Sir Henry Stuart Jones with the assistance of Roderick McKenzie

Ninth edition
Oxford University Press, 1940

Text provided by Perseus Digital Library, with funding from The National Endowment for the Humanities. Original version available for viewing and download at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/.

Accordance edition hypertexted and formatted by OakTree Software, Inc.

Version 1.2
 

 

Thx

D
 

Hi Daniel, thanks so much for providing that, although the product page does give more or less the same information, I would never have known that the Accordance version is built from what is currently available on the Perseus website.

 

Matt


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#15 Tony Pyles

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:06 PM

I, too, would like to see the supplement in Accordance at some point in the (near? :-) ) future.



#16 Tony Pyles

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:27 PM

Any chance there is news on this front (incorporating the revised supplement)?



#17 Helen Brown

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 01:26 PM

As I recall (I may be wrong), we waited for years for a promised etext of LSJ from OUP, and then used the available one from Perseus which did not include the supplement. The only other source I know of is Logos, but typically we have not been able to agree on terms with them. It IS a lot of work to etext such titles, and a great pity to have to do so again, but we may look into it next year.

 

The good news on LSJ is that we finally have a cleaner edition which includes the paragraphs that were skipped in one section of the lexicon in our first release. We were actually very embarrassed by the condition of the first release, and waited in vain for the original developer to keep his word and restore the missing sections. We ended up starting over from the original etext, and are much happier with the current release.


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#18 Abram K-J

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 01:33 PM

The only other source I know of is Logos

 

The BibleWorks version has the supplement, too.


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#19 Unix

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 10:55 AM

That's excellent, Helen! Would really want the revised supplement and am not going to buy from Logos (nor from Bibelworks which I don't have):

we may look into it next year.






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