14 replies to this topic

[jhancock61]

I know the NIDNTT and the Comfort NT Commentary have similar information with the NIDNTT having MUCH MUCH more. Which module is actually more useful?

 

Thanks in advance!

Jeff

Edited by Helen Brown, 18 March 2014 - 05:33 PM.
Edited Topic Title

[JonathanHuber]

If you mean Comfort's Text and Translation commentary, then I would disagree that it's similar to the NIDNTT. Comfort is a textual criticism commentary organized in canonical order while the NIDNTT is a theological lexicon organized by Greek words. They're both great tools but serve very different purposes.

[jhancock61]

I meant to say the COMFORT compared to the CNTTS apparatus. Sorry! I have been looking at so many of the resources and it gets a little confusing. I am a new Accordance user. I just purchased the Essential Collection and am trying to determine what individual modules would be a good addition to my Accordance.

 

thanks!

[PhilT]

Comfort is different from the CNTTS app. 

Comfort gives a commentary on the different varriants in the text, somewhat like Metzger's app. commentary.  So in Comfort you will find info on why a particular varriant is preffered.  Advantage of Comfort is that cites other English translations.  Whereas CNTTS, is simply a list of varriants in the Greek NT, CNTTS large in the number of variants it cites.  If you are into Greek, some of the Greek texts already include varriant readings.  What Comfort does is help explain and evaluate those readings.  If you use the UBS Greek New Testament, the variants are clasified as A, B, C , or D.  This classification relates to the likelyhood of them being in the org. text.  If you use the UBS text, Metzger comments on the varriants using the UBS classication of A, B, C or D.  The other alternative if you are just starting to try and evaluate varriants is the translation notes that accompany the NET translation.

I have Comfort and use it, as well as Metzger (in book form), both will give reasons why one varriant is chosen over another.  The advantage of Comfort is that it reference to several English translations.  Metzger only deals with the Greek Text.  If you have the Essential package you may have a Greek text that includes varriants.

CNTTS, is more specialised in citing more varriants in the Greek text.  The UBS Greek Text is produced by the United Bible Society mainly for translators, as such it singles out varriants that are of concern in translating the text.  NA-28 or Na-27, differs not in the Greek text itself, but in the amount of varriants they show in the version.  Indeed UBS 4th ed and NA-27 were the same Greek text apart from the varriants they cite.

 

The most useful? How good is your Greek?

 

If you enjoy chasing through varriants then CNTTS, if however you want an explaination of why one varriant was chosen over another, Comfort or Metzger and of course the NET translation notes.
 

The other things that may be helpful on varriants are the UBS Handbooks (have not used these) or commentaries on the Greek text such as Word or the New International Greek series. 

[JonathanHuber]

The most useful? How good is your Greek?

 

If you enjoy chasing through varriants then CNTTS, if however you want an explaination of why one varriant was chosen over another, Comfort or Metzger and of course the NET translation notes.

 

This is a good way to put it. As far as text critical tools go, Comfort and CNTTS are just about opposite ends of the technical/accessible spectrum. Comfort is more accessible and less technical, and could be used profitably even if you are't comfortable with Greek. The CNTTS apparatus is very specialized and will be of little value unless you know Greek. Both are good but are useful in different ways. If you don't already know whether you need the CNTTS apparatus, I would guess that Comfort would be more useful to you.

 

Since they aim at different goals, these tools are complementary rather than redundant. I have and use the CNTTS apparatus, Metzger's Textual Commentary, and Comfort's. But if forced to pick just one, I'd probably pick Comfort.

Edited by JonathanHuber, 18 March 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[Rick Bennett]

In case you didn't see it, I wrote this article introducing and explaining the features of the Accordance edition of Comfort's NTTTC.

[Timothy Jenney]

I think Comfort is an excellent resource for the pastor or Bible Study teacher, both of whom have to deal with audiences with a host of different Bible translations.  Comfort explains the important textual variants and their implications simply, but also includes how each modern translation renders the passage. 

 

CNTTS is really for the NT scholar, one who also handles Greek very well. It is a comprehensive list of variants, with little to no explanation of why they might be important or how they would affect interpretation. 

[Julie Falling]

I have Comfort and use it regularly.  It's very accessible, and would be useful even to someone who knows little Greek.  His discussions are helpful.

 

Here's what Comfort has to say @Rom 8:28 – 

 

 Rom 8v28.jpg   149.35KB   2 downloads

 

Metzger was on the committee for the NA27th, I believe, and discusses the reasons behind the decisions.  I use his commentary regularly, as well, but Comfort is more helpful to me.

 

Both Comfort and Metzger deal with major variants.  They are not comprehensive.

 

There are variants listed in the CNTTS that are not found in the NA27, NA28, or UBS4 apparatus.  Additionally, the CNTTS has much more thorough descriptions of the manuscripts.  It cites only Greek and and Latin witnesses – no church fathers or other versions at this point.  I use it almost daily because it is so thorough, but the amount of data can be overwhelming when you first start using it.  It also takes some practice 'decoding.'

 

I agree with the others that Comfort is the place to start.  If you're interested in textual criticism, you are going to want to own them all eventually:  Comfort, Metzger, NA28 Apparatus, UBS4 (5th edition is coming soon so you might want to wait on that one), and CNTTS.

 

If your Latin is decent, you might even want Tischendorf's Apparatus.  It covers some territory that the others don't.  I purchased it, but my Latin is so rusty (it’s been 45 years), that I returned it.  If a translated version (Latin to English) ever appears, I’ll buy it again.

[jhancock61]

Thank you to everyone for your informative discussions. They are very helpful to me. At this point, my Greek is VERY limited. Based on what I have read from everyone, I believe Comfort will be the best module for me to purchase at this point.

Thanks!

[Ken Simpson]

I have Comfort and use it regularly.  It's very accessible, and would be useful even to someone who knows little Greek.  His discussions are helpful.

 

Here's what Comfort has to say @Rom 8:28 – 

 

Rom 8v28.jpg

 

Metzger was on the committee for the NA27th, I believe, and discusses the reasons behind the decisions.  I use his commentary regularly, as well, but Comfort is more helpful to me.

 

Both Comfort and Metzger deal with major variants.  They are not comprehensive.

 

There are variants listed in the CNTTS that are not found in the NA27, NA28, or UBS4 apparatus.  Additionally, the CNTTS has much more thorough descriptions of the manuscripts.  It cites only Greek and and Latin witnesses – no church fathers or other versions at this point.  I use it almost daily because it is so thorough, but the amount of data can be overwhelming when you first start using it.  It also takes some practice 'decoding.'

 

I agree with the others that Comfort is the place to start.  If you're interested in textual criticism, you are going to want to own them all eventually:  Comfort, Metzger, NA28 Apparatus, UBS4 (5th edition is coming soon so you might want to wait on that one), and CNTTS.

 

If your Latin is decent, you might even want Tischendorf's Apparatus.  It covers some territory that the others don't.  I purchased it, but my Latin is so rusty (it’s been 45 years), that I returned it.  If a translated version (Latin to English) ever appears, I’ll buy it again.

Hey Julie,

how about you write a 5 step beginners guide ,(or some such thing) to using the CNTTS and post it on the Exchange? I think it would be very helpful (though I am also sure you would be slightly embarrassed about doing it). I'd love to see it personally,

[Julie Falling]

Hey Julie,

how about you write a 5 step beginners guide ,(or some such thing) to using the CNTTS and post it on the Exchange? I think it would be very helpful (though I am also sure you would be slightly embarrassed about doing it). I'd love to see it personally,

 

Ken –

 

You have no idea how intimidated I am by the prospect!  I'll have to think and pray about that one.  The guide at the beginning of the CNTTS is confusing, at best.  I've actually emailed them for clarification a couple of times.  Nice fella emailed me back.  Cleared up a few things but left some as murky as before.  

 

I'll get back to you if I think it's possible for me to be of any help.

 

Julie

[Serpentium]

I think Comfort is an excellent resource for the pastor or Bible Study teacher, both of whom have to deal with audiences with a host of different Bible translations.  Comfort explains the important textual variants and their implications simply, but also includes how each modern translation renders the passage. 

 

CNTTS is really for the NT scholar, one who also handles Greek very well. It is a comprehensive list of variants, with little to no explanation of why they might be important or how they would affect interpretation. 

 

I love Comfort, really. It is one of the 4/5 modules I use for any study in the NT.

And I am angry (grrrrr) that I can't find a similar book for the OT, and/or for the LXX.

Seriously...I want Comfort for the OT...pls...make it...pls...

 

Anyway...Do you have suggestions for a similar approach for the Hebrew variations, and LXX greek variations, without the need to read biblical languages (apparatuses), like the comfortable Comfort in english?

[Abram K-J]

The Biblia Hebraica Quinta comes with a "BHQ Commentary" (available in Accordance) that is helpful along these lines. Not available for all that many OT books yet, though.

[Serpentium]

The Biblia Hebraica Quinta comes with a "BHQ Commentary" (available in Accordance) that is helpful along these lines. Not available for all that many OT books yet, though.

 

I read all your posts about the BHQ, BHS and LXX apparatuses. I was just waiting for your answer 

I wonder if you could give some better snapshot of those modules, maybe showing how a perfect ignorant of Hebrew and Greek could use them, to which extent and how fruitful for an only-english student, they are.

 

And by the way, dear Abram K-J...I expect in a future time to buy an "ALTTC" (Abram: LXX Text and Translation Commentary)

[Abram K-J]

Well, the BHQ Commentary is written in English, and straightforward enough, but (by definition) as a commentary on the Hebrew text, there is lots of Hebrew (and Greek, and other languages) contained in that commentary. I would think it would still be usable for an English-only student, but then again, original language text criticism can only go so far in just English.

 

Have you read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe? If I could somehow get a time-stopping wardrobe, I'd gladly go in and work my way through the LXX! Though others' efforts are already well underway, and far superior to anything I could do right now. (See here.) Thanks for your kindness.