Odd search results - scope issue ?

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi ya,

 

  I am playing with the following search, which I hope to script and thus I am doing it as a search string rather than a construct :

 

+κρινω <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 10 Words> +κρίνω@([verb],[noun -proper]) <FOLLOWED BY><WITHIN 10 Words> +κρίνω@([verb],[noun -proper]) <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 10 Words> +κρίνω@([verb],[noun -proper]) <FOLLOWED BY><WITHIN 10 Words> +κρίνω@([verb],[noun -proper])

 

  I have set my search scope to chapter. And my text is NA28 Greek NT.

 

  I get some results which appear to violate the conditions. I've had a poke about in the docs but cannot fathom this one. The similar construct search works without throwing up incorrect results. Here are the first few results :

 

Μαθθαῖον 5·25 Ἴσθι εὐνοῶν τῷ ἀντιδίκῳ σου ταχύ, ἕως ὅτου εἶ μετ᾿ αὐτοῦ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ, μήποτέ σε παραδῷ ὁ ἀντίδικος τῷ κριτῇ καὶ ὁ κριτὴς τῷ ὑπηρέτῃ καὶ εἰς φυλακὴν βληθήσῃ·

Μαθθαῖον 7·1 ¶     Μὴ κρίνετε, ἵνα μὴ κριθῆτε·
Μαθθαῖον 7·2 ἐν ᾧ γὰρ κρίματι κρίνετε κριθήσεσθε, καὶ ἐν ᾧ μέτρῳ μετρεῖτε μετρηθήσεται ὑμῖν.

Μαθθαῖον 11·24 πλὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι γῇ Σοδόμων ἀνεκτότερον ἔσται ἐν ἡμέρᾳ κρίσεως ἢ σοί.
Μαθθαῖον 11·25 ¶     Ἐν ἐκείνῳ τῷ καιρῷ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν· ἐξομολογοῦμαί σοι, πάτερ, κύριε τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καὶ τῆς γῆς, ὅτι ἔκρυψας ταῦτα ἀπὸ σοφῶν καὶ συνετῶν καὶ ἀπεκάλυψας αὐτὰ νηπίοις·

Μαθθαῖον 12·41 Ἄνδρες Νινευῖται ἀναστήσονται ἐν τῇ κρίσει μετὰ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ κατακρινοῦσιν αὐτήν, ὅτι μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα Ἰωνᾶ, καὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Ἰωνᾶ ὧδε.
Μαθθαῖον 12·42 βασίλισσα νότου ἐγερθήσεται ἐν τῇ κρίσει μετὰ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ κατακρινεῖ αὐτήν, ὅτι ἦλθεν ἐκ τῶν περάτων τῆς γῆς ἀκοῦσαι τὴν σοφίαν Σολομῶνος, καὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Σολομῶνος ὧδε.

 

Μαθθαῖον 23·28 οὕτως καὶ ὑμεῖς ἔξωθεν μὲν φαίνεσθε τοῖς ἀνθρώποις δίκαιοι, ἔσωθεν δέ ἐστε μεστοὶ ὑποκρίσεως καὶ ἀνομίας.
Μαθθαῖον 23·29 ¶ Οὐαὶ ὑμῖν, γραμματεῖς καὶ Φαρισαῖοι ὑποκριταί, ὅτι οἰκοδομεῖτε τοὺς τάφους τῶν προφητῶν καὶ κοσμεῖτε τὰ μνημεῖα τῶν δικαίων,

 

  As you can see ch 7 above is right on. Ch 5, 11 and 12 are all off in terms of the number of occurrences. Matt 15:23,24,26 which should be present are not found.

 

  Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug ?

 

  In case it matters, the construct version uses root AGREE connectors rather than specifying the root repeatedly.

 

Thx

D

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Ok I ran a more accurate copy in construct and got these results :

 

Μαθθαῖον 7·1 ¶     Μὴ κρίνετε, ἵνα μὴ κριθῆτε·
Μαθθαῖον 7·2 ἐν ᾧ γὰρ κρίματι κρίνετε κριθήσεσθε, καὶ ἐν ᾧ μέτρῳ μετρεῖτε μετρηθήσεται ὑμῖν.

Ῥωμαίους 2·1 ¶     Διὸ ἀναπολόγητος εἶ, ὦ ἄνθρωπε πᾶς ὁ κρίνων· ἐν ᾧ γὰρ κρίνεις τὸν ἕτερον, σεαυτὸν κατακρίνεις, τὰ γὰρ αὐτὰ πράσσεις ὁ κρίνων.
Ῥωμαίους 2·2 οἴδαμεν δὲ ὅτι τὸ κρίμα τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν κατὰ ἀλήθειαν ἐπὶ τοὺς τὰ τοιαῦτα πράσσοντας.

Κορινθίους α 6·2 ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι οἱ ἅγιοι τὸν κόσμον κρινοῦσιν; καὶ εἰ ἐν ὑμῖν κρίνεται ὁ κόσμος, ἀνάξιοί ἐστε κριτηρίων ἐλαχίστων;
Κορινθίους α 6·3 οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ἀγγέλους κρινοῦμεν, μήτι γε βιωτικά;
Κορινθίους α 6·4 βιωτικὰ μὲν οὖν κριτήρια ἐὰν ἔχητε, τοὺς ἐξουθενημένους ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ, τούτους καθίζετε;

Ἰακώβου 4·11 ¶     Μὴ καταλαλεῖτε ἀλλήλων, ἀδελφοί. ὁ καταλαλῶν ἀδελφοῦ ἢ κρίνων τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ καταλαλεῖ νόμου καὶ κρίνει νόμον· εἰ δὲ νόμον κρίνεις, οὐκ εἶ ποιητὴς νόμου ἀλλὰ κριτής.
Ἰακώβου 4·12 εἷς ἐστιν ὁ νομοθέτης καὶ κριτὴς ὁ δυνάμενος σῶσαι καὶ ἀπολέσαι· σὺ δὲ τίς εἶ ὁ κρίνων τὸν πλησίον;

 

This is the construct :

 

 

 

  OK perhaps a theory why the ch 8 one did not show up. Its result looks like this :

 

Ἰωάννην 8·14 ἀπεκρίθη Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· κἂν ἐγὼ μαρτυρῶ περὶ ἐμαυτοῦ, ἀληθής ἐστιν ἡ μαρτυρία μου, ὅτι οἶδα πόθεν ἦλθον καὶ ποῦ ὑπάγω· ὑμεῖς δὲ οὐκ οἴδατε πόθεν ἔρχομαι ἢ ποῦ ὑπάγω.
Ἰωάννην 8·15 ὑμεῖς κατὰ τὴν σάρκα κρίνετε, ἐγὼ οὐ κρίνω οὐδένα.
Ἰωάννην 8·16 καὶ ἐὰν κρίνω δὲ ἐγώ, ἡ κρίσις ἡ ἐμὴ ἀληθινή ἐστιν, ὅτι μόνος οὐκ εἰμί, ἀλλ᾿ ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πέμψας με πατήρ.

 

  The first word has two roots according to ID, but the first is not κρινω but απο. So perhaps constructs and search string evaluate roots differently ? That said I don't know why the simple construct above also failed to find it. It's initial element is the same LEX, VERB, NOUN-proper, +κρινω. Thoughts ?

 

Thx

D

Edited June 20, 2015 by Daniel Semler

[Helen Brown]

The search tab simply does not handle repeated correctly, it never has. It's not possible to parse such a search request, as it is not clear what the subsequent  FOLLOWED BY and WITHIN relate back to. The Construct is much more accurate.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Thanx for the explanation Helen.

I think I may understand how that explains the behaviour I am seeing. I am guessing taking Matt 5:25 as an example:

 

Μαθθαῖον 5·25 Ἴσθι εὐνοῶν τῷ ἀντιδίκῳ σου ταχύ, ἕως ὅτου εἶ μετ᾿ αὐτοῦ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ, μήποτέ σε παραδῷ ὁ ἀντίδικος τῷ κριτῇ καὶ ὁ κριτὴς τῷ ὑπηρέτῃ καὶ εἰς φυλακὴν βληθήσῃ·

 

that what happens is that the first pair of operands joined by <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 10 Words> finds these two occurrences. Then the next pair does so again, and so on until all predicates are consumed.

 

Is that what's happening here ?

 

If so that's a bit unfortunate. It would be nice to see that modified but backward compatibility with existing user expectation may preclude doing that.

 

My basic problem is that I wish to run a bunch of similar searches for various verbs/nouns and capture the output. What I really need is a batch query engine. The only batch interface I have found really is AppleScripting (via GUI scripting) text searches like this. A full batch query feature with all the bells and whistles of constructs would be totally awesome of course and if there is even a skerrick of interest I'd be happy to sketch in more detail what I'm thinking.

 

Perhaps support bracketing in the text search syntax to indicate how such a query with multiple <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 10 Words> would be helpful, and very likely less work to implement.

 

Thx

D