Λύχνις Δαν Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hi ya, Acc 11.0.8 Mac 10.10.5 Imagine for arguments sake I want to do this search : ת*@[verb wawconsec] The forum shows it LTR when it should be RTL but you probably know that. So I do the following : Select Hebrew SIL keyboard type ת Select US Eng keyboard type *@ [verb wawconsec] Now what actually happens is I get : ת*@[hqrn 'C'bMmdqb] If I then select the bits inside the [ ] I can type and the English renders properly as verb wawconsec. And if I type ת*@[ ] Again LTR when it should be RTL and then I click into the space between [ ] I can then type verb wawconsec and it is parsed correctly. So why is it not when I type straight through ? This seems like a bug to me but I'm very new to Hebrew searching in Acc. In Greek I can type stuff in the braces and they will be in Greek chars until I hit the closing bracket. At that point they will render properly. So is this a bug or am I missing some critical step ? I'll also note that in order to type the [ ] properly so that Acc interprets it as a tag properly I have to type the left bracket first [ which I guess is an indicator to change text direction because it has that affect anyway. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 There should be no need to switch keyboards. Accordance knows to enter Hebrew in a Hebrew search field, and to switch to English inside the brackets. It may be easier to use a shortcut to enter [TAG] or [ANY] and replace that with the desired tag (if you refuse to use the convenient dialog boxes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Jenney Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I think the issue arises because Accordance does not automatically shift to English after the first (rightmost) square bracket is entered. In fact, the first square bracket itself is in Yehudit, while the second is in English. You can tell because the two brackets are different sizes in the Search Entry box. It's a bit disconcerting at first. It actually works out just fine—if the user just types two square brackets. After the second (leftmost) square bracket is entered, Accordance does switch to English. Any text entered thereafter is arranged left-to-right after the second (leftmost) bracket. The same is true with the angle brackets used with Accordance commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Hey Helen, I'm trying to avoid learning multiple keyboard layouts - that's why I'm switching keyboards. The Acc and SIL layouts do differ a bit though in truth I've not compared how much - I'll do that later today. Regarding the dialogs, it's actually faster to type it in ( I do it all the time for Greek ) if I can learn how and learn all the keywords - there are a lot when compared to Greek but oh well. Hey Tim, I noticed the square braces being large and small. In fact if I enter the left hand open brace - as though opening in typing LTR Acc notices this and switches to English chars and types LTR. The problem is that what it displays is the wrong letter for what is being typed in English. For example above I type [verb but I get [hqrn. That's really the substance of the issue I'm reporting. It's like the switch of keyboard mappings is not complete. I just checked windows and it's the same there also. Thx D Edited September 29, 2015 by Daniel Semler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Jenney Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I know that defining the boundaries between RTL and LTR languages has been a headache—and not just in the Search Entry box. The other hassle is finding some standard way to show where those boundaries are. This isn't just an challenge in Accordance, either. Every word processing program that allows mixing languages faces this challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 True enough - but you guys are so close ! Anyhow with a couple of extra keystrokes out of order I can get it to work ok. type in [ then ] and then cursor back into it and then the typing works. True of both Mac and Windows. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Jenney Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Actually, Daniel, you don't need to manually place the cursor between the two brackets. That's what I was trying to explain in my earlier reply. Type the Hebrew word, then ], then [. Your cursor is now the the right of the [ and typing LTR in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Yeah I tried that and I do see the cursor to the right of the smaller bracket, but then I get hqrn not verb when I type. I don't know why exactly. Perhaps this is a consequence of the Use Israeli keyboard preference, which I set because I use the SIL layout for Hebrew. If it works for you like this (which I'm guessing it does) then I'm not replicating your setup exactly. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Hi ya, Ok back testing. Helen's shift-cmd-G suggestion is a good one. That works very nicely and saves the backing up and so on. I also tried the Yehudit keyboard with the Israeli keyboard pref turned off. That worked fine typing as I initially described - specifically typing the left bracket first. Typing as you describe above Tim doesn't quite work for me still, but it's closer. What happens in that case is that I get a big ] and a small [. My cursor is inside the [ ] and I can type ok but then I get an error dialog complaining about the large ]. So this does indeed seem to be related to the keyboard mapping. But the shift-cmd-G option looks good for use with the SIL keyboard, if I don't learn Yehudit, though overall this would save keystrokes, no doubt about it. Thanx to you both for the help. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pyles Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I use the Israeli and Greek Polytonic keyboard layouts for the reason you mentioned, Daniel—not having to learn multiple layouts. But I've found it so frustrating trying to type in a search that I will go to some other program just to type it out, and then paste it in. That (usually) works. Otherwise I use the contextual menu. I suspect the issue is that Accordance is translating my keystrokes into Yehudit (or Helena) rather than utilising Unicode character entry. If this is so, I'm happy to put up with the minor inconvenience, but look forward to someday everything being fully Unicode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hey Tony, Quick question for you as you use 3 keyboards (or more ...) on the Mac. How do you switch keyboards efficiently ? On PC I have Ctrl-0 for English, Ctrl-4 for Greek and Ctrl-5 for Hebrew. On Mac I can only select previous or next by shortcut which isn't quite as convenient. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pyles Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hi Daniel, On my Mac I have the shortcut set to Cmd-space. (That's what it was way back in Leopard or something, but then that became the default for spotlight. So it's always a pain when I find myself working on my wife's computer, and I'm sure much the same for her…) If I press the shortcut and hold down the command key then it shows all of my keyboards, so I can switch between them easily that way (see screenshot 1). There is actually another shortcut you can set that just cycles through your keyboards instead of going to the previously used one (see screenshot 2). Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanx Tony, Its the second method I use now. But I cannot find what the cmd-space shortcut you describe is for. I see that it's the default for Spotlight - I must have turned it off at one time . So I could set cmd-space to pop up the popover thing you have (in your first image) if I new where to set it up or what it is. Could you tell me what it's called ? thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pyles Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's the first option in that second screenshot (select previous input method). Alternatively, you could use ctrl-space and alt-ctrl-space for those two options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hmmm... ok I can cycle through that way sure. But I don't get a popover. I wonder if its because I'm on Yosemite. Are you on something older on that laptop ? Perhaps there is an obscure pref to set somewhere. I'll check further after I've finished the psalm for the day. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pyles Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm on Yosemite. I get that popover by pressing cmd-space and then not releasing the cmd key. If I keep both keys pressed down it doesn't matter, but if I let go of the cmd key whilst keeping the space bar down, I don't get the popover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Ok that's mental. I had changed the keyboard shortcut from cmd-space to cmd-up arrow. Resetting it to default I now get the popup. Lovely ! Oh well - I have it back at default now and I'll leave it there. Many thanx for the help. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pyles Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 No worries, glad I could help! How do you set up the Windows shortcuts? I remember something along the lines of alt + left shift to switch in Word, but sounds like you have something more helpful in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm using Windows 7 so this may not apply depending on what you are using - I have to update to 10 but I've been somewhat put off so I'm putting it off Under Text Services and Input Languages, which I get at from the Language Bar which I have floating on the desktop. If you don't then you can go to Control Panel -> Clock, Language, and Region -> Change keyboards or other input methods. That gets you the Region and Language pop up. Then on the Keyboards and Languages tab there is a button Change keyboards ... click that and you'll get the Text Services and Input Languages. Then there is a tab called Advance Key Settings. There you will see your input languages and the key sequence for each. I have found that resetting sequences for keyboards higher up the list blanks out the others, so I pretty much had to set them all each time I changed them from top to bottom. Once set though they were good. Could be something funky I was doing but I think its a bug really. But its win 7 so I'll never get a fix. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Fyfe Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Hi Tony! On windows 8 or 10 it's windows-space and similarly you hold windows to look at the various options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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