Michel Gilbert Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hi. On another post Helen said, "If anyone seriously has a text they want to tag that would benefit others, he/she is welcome to contact us with a proposal." I would like to gauge early interest in a tagged Modern Hebrew New Testament from the Bible Society in Israel, morphology and syntax. If I thought there was enough interest, I might send in a proposal next year. Regards, Michel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hi Michel, I might well be interested in something like that, and in another couple of years might even be able to read it but I have a question. I checked quickly Amazon and ran across a review stating that the Hebrew language is not modern : http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hebrew-Testament-Society-Israel/dp/9654310112. Can you tell me what is "Modern" means here ? Or if you have a link to the publisher's blurb on the work. I had a poke about but I'm not sure I'm finding it. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hi Daniel, I don't know what that reviewer means exactly. I don't like hazarding guesses, but s/he might be referring to citations of, allusions to, or the influence of biblical Hebrew in the language. But the rest is certainly modern, especially compared to the Delitzsch's 19th century edition, etc. But, I don't want to get into all of that now. The project I have in mind would include notes related to biblical and Modern Hebrew, and even notes about the original Greek. But again, I don't want to get into that now. If there is enough interest, I would work on these issues for my proposal. Regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hi, Bty, I may have been in error in another post regarding the provenance of the Modern Hebrew Bible in MySword for Android. When I checked a few verses at random I thought it was the Bible Society's version. But now that I've read more of it, I'm inclined to think it is Delitzsch's 10th edition, 1889. Now that I've learned my lesson though, I'm not ready to declare it is unless I read the whole thing and compare editions line by line. Regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 in another couple of years might even be able to read it Hi again, I'll hazard another guess: the NT is more familiar than the HB/OT to most Acc users. It would actually help to learn Hebrew by reading something familiar, and a lot of the citations, allusions, and influences of the HB/OT would be familiar to NT readers. If someone tagged the Modern Hebrew NT (and it doesn't have to be me!), beginning Hebrew students could navigate the unfamiliar Modern Hebrew with the tags. Regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Another question, perhaps for Acc or anyone having this module : http://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=MHNT. How would this Modern Hebrew NT from the Bible Society in Israel, differ from the modern hebrew translation in this module - it says it includes both Deilitzch and "The modern translation (MHNT) is of a modern critical edition of the Greek NT, and uses a contemporary Israeli Hebrew style." but the latter is not further described. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Francis Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I do not read Hebrew (would be nice but i am closer to reading greek than to even remotely grasping hebrew). I think this is a project well worth doing, but my support is purely moral since I would not be purchasing this product. Good luck and I hope you are able to undertake it. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Can you tell me what "Modern" means here ? To add to your bookshelf: A History of the Hebrew Language, by Angel Sáenz-Badillos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Finkelstein Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 For those of us who read Hebrew fluently—and speak it—this makes little sense. An interesting project it is but only for those who don't know Hebrew. There is already so many web-based features to assist you. For example, use Morphix or DoItInHebrew (both are linked to the Academy's website). I would much rather see Accordance bring their rabbinics material up to academic standards. For example, the Bavli text itself is still missing ca. 10 tractates. Point is, I see a tagged modern hebrew new testament a back burner project. Moreover, since it is a translation it would first be better off tagged against the G/K (or Strongs) system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 it is only for those who don't know Hebrew Exactly. And, that's where the interest might lie. since it is a translation it would first be better off tagged against the G/K (or Strongs) system. That would be part of the project so users could use an interlinear. Regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Finkelstein Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sounds like a lot of time wasted for a very limited group of people—who would otherwise know how to read what you want. I get these sense this digital age is taking a beating on the younger folks need to know their languages. Can you give me one particular example of how a tagged Hebrew new testament would resolve a problem you face in reading a text? And the other side: can you give me good example of how a comprehensive search would justify this project? My opinion is that Accordance spend some time fixing the significant gaps in the quality of their material. Look at the targumim for example! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sounds like a lot of time wasted for a very limited group of people That's what I'm trying to find out - I certainly won't waste my time if there isn't enough interest. I can also tell you, some people just like Hebrew, and like reading the Modern Hebrew NT. one particular example of how a tagged Hebrew new testament would resolve a problem you face in reading a text I didn't say it was for solving textual issues. It would be for Hebrew immersion. Many Christians, of all persuasions, in many universities in Canada and the USA, choose to learn biblical Hebrew in the context of Modern Hebrew as a living language - to immerse themselves in the sounds of Hebrew as much as possible, and to reinforce shared vocabulary. In the same way, I have a feeling that some on this Forum might want to immerse themselves in the MHNT. I envision that someone reading aloud the text would also be part of the project. can you give me good example of how a comprehensive search would justify this project? I'm not sure what you mean by this - a comprehensive search of what? If of a word, or grammatical or syntactical structure, then I'll give you an example. If we could search the MHNT like we can the HB (morphology and syntax), then I could find examples to build on Marc Brettler's Biblical Hebrew for Students of Modern Israeli Hebrew. My opinion is that Accordance spend some time fixing the significant gaps in the quality of their material By all means, post this separately as a Module Request, and your desire for more Rabbinic texts. Or, add your vote to the posts that already exist. But my opinion is I don't want these gaps filled in Acc, unless they can offer something the available options don't. They are all available at Davka, mostly printed editions, and at the Responsa Project, more scholarly manuscript based editions. I posted a while ago, "In case someone doesn't know, the database is available online at http://www.responsa....ome.en-US.aspx# on a subscription basis at http://www.responsa....showProductList . Most Jewish scholars I know use the latter database. I would only support inclusion in Acc if they were tagged for morphology and syntax. For instance, I have thought of a proposal to tag rabbinic texts, starting with בראשית רבא in Ms Vat. 30, based on Kutscher's Studies in Galilean Aramaic. But, that is a back burner project for me. To each his own. I do appreciate hearing your opinion, and I'm sure Acc does too. But, I'm also not interested in justifying this project over one of yours. Acc listens to its users, including you and me, and takes many things into account before they proceed with a new Module. שלום, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Finkelstein Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I am not trying to justify anything but the need to focus on the quality of their resources. The targumim are only one example; I have many more. I suppose a lot of this is the capitalist market in which the company attempts to do business, or perhaps its because they have no language scholars on their staff (as far as I can tell from the website). Regardless, it takes this thread beyond its bounds. With that said, I think Israeli's will do just fine just by reading the text for themselves—and we tend to be very good at mastering texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Some short responses to the collected comments above while we were celebrating Thanksgiving today: We have several top-quality scholars on our team, but they are mostly too modest to broadcast their names or even post on these forums. Our choices are not driven by the "Capitalist market." We have invested major resources to bring materials to scholars on which we will never get a return for our investment We are well aware of the need to improve the Rabbinics offerings and especially to complete the Bavli. We have been waiting a long time for our source to complete it, but they have let us down and we are still trying. We are not aware of problems with the Targumim except that the translation is not quite complete yet. The original CAL texts and tagging were enhanced and completed for us by a world class Aramaic scholar. We believe our texts are both complete and accurate, the best texts available, and we would appreciate specific feedback if you find any issues with them. The Modern (and Delitszch) New Testaments were originally published for Hebrew speakers, and this is the reason we offer them. We are more interested to get those versions tagged with Strong's numbers so that these speakers can enjoy the links to the Greek texts. A complete morphological and syntactical tagging is rather unlikely, if for no other reason that the structure of the language has changed so much that the tagging would be incompatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 A complete morphological and syntactical tagging is rather unlikely, if for no other reason that the structure of the language has changed so much that the tagging would be incompatible. Hi Helen, While I thought it would be unlikely, I don't think this reason is valid. First, the morphology hasn't changed drastically, especially in something like the MHNT of the Bible Society in Israel. "Israeli Hebrew morphology does not differ fundamentally from that of earlier stages of the language, although in this area too popular usage diverges from academic description" (A History of the Hebrew Language, by Angel Sáenz-Badillos 284). And, second, while the syntax has changed at certain points, the linguistic theory underlying Dr. Holmstedt's database is certainly compatible with Modern Hebrew. I included the quote for the sake of members/users who might be confused over this issue. Happy Thanksgiving, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 We have invested major resources to bring materials to scholars on which we will never get a return for our investment About which I am very thankful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Mansfield Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Great news! We now have added Strong’s Greek Key Numbers to the Modern Hebrew New Testament (MHNT). Please see today’s blog post for more information. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 Hi, Wow! This will be very useful. It is also very gracious to offer the Upgrade for $5. Regards, Michel 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Very cool - I missed the $5 upgrade - reading too fast. Very nice indeed. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYA Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Yes, thanks very much Accordance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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