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#1 Nathan Parker

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 05:27 PM

I just purchased the Masorah Thesaurus. When I'm in a Biblical text, how do I look up the Masorah notes for the passage I am studying? Would I search the "Scripture" field for the passage I'm studying, or is there a quicker way I'm overlooking?

 

Thanks!


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#2 Michael Miles

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 05:38 PM

I just purchased the Masorah Thesaurus. When I'm in a Biblical text, how do I look up the Masorah notes for the passage I am studying? Would I search the "Scripture" field for the passage I'm studying, or is there a quicker way I'm overlooking?

 

Thanks!

Nathan,

 

If you were to purchase the module for me, I'd be most happy to assist you in this.   :)  I was under the misguided hope that this module would be perhaps ridiculously low priced right about now, and since it was not I rather spent my money on gumdrops and peppermints.

 

I'm going to hang around here to see how this pans out and I hope that my reply is not taken as a pesty intrusion on your inquiry.

 

Cheers,

Michael



#3 R. Mansfield

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 06:22 PM

Nathan, see Timothy Hegg's blog post about the Masora Thesaurus. I also talked with him recently about creating a brief video tutorial about the Masora Thesaurus. Hopefully, we can have this available before the end of the year.


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#4 Helen Brown

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 06:28 PM

You can simply select the verse reference in the text and then "Amplify" to the Thesaurus, and it will find all the references.


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#5 Michael Miles

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 09:04 PM

You can simply select the verse reference in the text and then "Amplify" to the Thesaurus, and it will find all the references.

My gumdrops are gone.  Maybe I did not exercise good judgment.   :)



#6 Nathan Parker

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 07:39 PM

Thanks Rick for the blog post, and thanks Helen for the amplifying suggestion! That sounds like the easiest way to use it.

 

@Michael While visions of sugar plums may dance in the heads of some on Christmas Eve, seems for me it's visions of Accordance Modules. ;-)


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#7 Nathan Parker

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 07:37 PM

I could really use a video tutorial on this. While I was able to amplify to the module and search for the verse references, my head starts spinning looking at all the information. If someone could do a video and show how to best read the information, especially how it compares to using it in a printed BHS, that'd be fantastic.


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#8 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 09:48 PM

Nathan, 

 

                The printed BHS only contains the Masora Parva, Masora finalis (and a highly edited form of that). Also. The editors of the BHS put the Masora Magna in a separate volume that is now out of print (although a digital edition of that does exist).

 

The  Masorah Thesaurus has so much more. It has the unedited Masorah Parva, the Masorah Magna of the Leningrad Codex(and other sources, too), as well cross references to other Masoretic list, notations, and texts (as well as more). The Masorah Thesaurus is of course searchable in ways that neither the print edition of the BHS nor the digital edition of Gerard E. Weil's Massorah Gedolah: Manuscrit B. 19a de Léningrad are. 


Edited by bkMitchell, 13 December 2015 - 09:38 PM.

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חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#9 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 06:33 AM

I could really use a video tutorial on this. While I was able to amplify to the module and search for the verse references, my head starts spinning looking at all the information. If someone could do a video and show how to best read the information, especially how it compares to using it in a printed BHS, that'd be fantastic.

 

I am not able to post videos here but I can post a few pictures. So, that we can better appreciate the Masorah Thesaurus let's first take a quick look at what the printed BHS offers. 

 

In a printed edition of the BHS we turn to page one or to Genesis 1:1. Now, we notice the raised circle above  בְּרֵאשִׁית . That circle in our printed BHS alerts us to the marginal notes called Masora Parva. To better illiterate what has just been said take a look at the following: Attached File  MP notes.png   123.98KB   4 downloads In the photo (or in the BHS) we notice that the fist letter of the note is the fifth letter of the Hebrew Alphabet  ה̇.  We, also notice that the ה̇ is has a small dot over it. When, we see a dot over a letter that often tells us that the letter is meant to be read as a number. In this case we read is as telling us that there are five occurrences of the word  בְּרֵאשִׁית in the text of the Tanach/Hebrew Bible.

 

We, also notice that there are two other Hebrew letters in the note with dots; both ג̇ and ב̇ followed by abbreviations or short hand notes.   ג̇ being the third letter of the alphabet represent 3, and  ב̇ being the second letter represents two (2 plus 3 is of course five). So, the Masora tells us that בְּרֵאשִׁית starts a stanza(ר״פ)   three times (ג̇) , and is embedded in a stanza ( מ״פ)   two times( ב̇).

 

This may help us understand the above abbreviations:

  (Within, inside) מ = מצעא

  (Head, start)      רֹ =ראש

  (verse/Stanza)  פ  = פסוקֹ, פסֹ, פסוֹ 

Sometimes (or at least I have seen some use) קֹ in place of פסוקֹ

 

 

However, since the Masora parva is brief it does not list those occurrences mentioned above. Before the advent of the Masorah Thesaurus that we would need to run a quick Accordance search, check out  a paper concordance, or wade through Masoretic lists to find all of the occurrences mention in the BHS' Masora Parva. The Masora Magna Register Attached File  MM index.png   122.4KB   0 downloads at the bottom of the printed BHS, however, does indicate were we can (or could in past time) quickly locate the list in Weil's Massorah Gedolah. Unfortunately the  the Massorah Gedolah is out of print, but as mention before there is a digital version of it in another software platform. Before, I got access to the Masorah Thesaurus module I, will admit, I used to use the digital version of Weil's Massorah Gedolah a fair bit and it still has it's place. However, the  Masorah Thesaurus module  offers much more than what Weil's Massorah Gedolah does. 


Edited by bkMitchell, 13 December 2015 - 07:27 AM.

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חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#10 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 09:19 PM

Now, turn to Genesis 43:8 in a printed edition of the BHS (page 71). Let's look at a rather famous example:

 

וַיֹּ֨אמֶר יְהוּדָ֜ה אֶל־יִשְׂרָאֵ֣ל אָבִ֗יו שִׁלְחָ֥ה הַנַּ֛עַר אִתִּ֖י וְנָק֣וּמָה וְנֵלֵ֑כָה וְנִֽחְיֶה֙ וְלֹ֣א נָמ֔וּת גַּם־אֲנַ֥חְנוּ גַם־אַתָּ֖ה גַּם־טַפֵּֽנוּ׃

 

 

Take a look at the Masora Parva note for Genesis 43:8 : י̇ב̇ פסוק̇ גם גם גם

י̇ב̇ = 12

Verses =פסוק̇

גם גם גם = a construction/string גם

The meaning = There are 12 verses in the Tanach where גם occurs three times.

 

 

The Mm register for Genesis 43:8 only has Mm index numbers for the following words:

שִׁלְחָה= Mm index number 2915

וְנָקוּמָה = Mm Index number 3078

 

In other words neither the BHS nor it's companion volume Weil's Masorah Gedolah can help you in finding the list or references for the 12 occurrences of the גם גם גם construction.

 

Also, in this case a paper concordance will be of little help since

גם appears something like 769 times in the Tanach/Hebrew Bible.

Click Searching on גם will similarly not help you much.

(However, Accordance's construction search can find examples of the structure and depending on how many intervening word you selected between each of the גם your results will vary). 

 

However, Since we have the Masorah Thesaurus we can easily find everything the Masora Parva note of the BHS was alluding to:

Open the Masorah Thesaurus

Open the Table contents

Type in גם and search

 

We will find the information we wanted to know at:

Paragraph 43839 of 188291

Paragraph 43844 of 188291

Paragraph 43850 of 188291

 

Here, is a screen shot of what the Masorah Thesaurus provides 

Attached File  gamgamgam.png   202.72KB   1 downloads

 

As, you can see there simply isn't enough space in the printed/paper BHS to provide that type of detailed information for every Masora parva note. This one reason (there are many more) why the Masorah Thesaurus is indispensable for Masoretic studies. 


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חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#11 Nathan Parker

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 12:41 AM

Thank you bk for the VERY detailed information! I thoroughly appreciate it. I was wondering if you'd be interested in doing one more thing for me. Would you be free sometime to have a screen sharing session with me where we could go over the content of your posts live inside Accordance? That way I could see your demonstration in a live, hands on setting? I have screen recording software on my machine, so if you wouldn't mind having your voice recorded (we wouldn't have to record each other's video), I could record the session, upload the video, and share it back here for anyone interested. It'd basically be like a screencast podcast having you demonstrate the Masorah. It would be extremely valuable.


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#12 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 07:48 AM

Thank you bk for the VERY detailed information! I thoroughly appreciate it. 

You, are more than welcomed. I am glad you asked such an interesting question. 

 

 Would you be free sometime to have a screen sharing session with me where we could go over the content of your posts live inside Accordance? 

I would not mind.

 

 

 upload the video, and share it back here for anyone interested. It'd basically be like a screencast podcast having you demonstrate the Masorah. It would be extremely valuable.

This is interesting I wasn't aware we could upload videos to these forums. I am not so sure about the valuable part, I am not sure how engaging such a presentation would be. 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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