Helen Brown Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 We are interested to receive (privately or here in the forums) an evaluation of the usefulness of Paratext versus Accordance. Paratext was developed by SIL, and now in cooperation with UBS. It is primarily a tool for translators. Do any of you have experience using it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ιακοβ Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I downloaded the product as part of my search for something that would help me with my personal bible translation work, I am not paid to do this, but I produce my own translation for my own usage as I work through the greek, and eventually the hebrew. I didn't get far, as it appears to require registration, and it seems I am ineligible for it.So instead, I am currently considering their file format for my own translation work, combined with scripts to do produce nice readable output. There is certainly a gap in this area. Would be nice if someone filled it, as far as I can tell, its not possible to easily create your own bible translation with footnotes, references, study notes, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 I had that same experience but when I looked at it it looked good. I then tried CTE but it's more for critical editions than translation per se. so I never went beyond the demos. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandennison Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I ported Bibledit to Windows. While Paratext is nice it has considerable licensing issues. Bibledit can sync your place with Bibleworks and adding an Accordance sync would be helpful. Personally I think the translation editing software is a distinct genre from what Accordance does, although if you buy out Paratext for the purpose of making their licensing civilized and not onerous I'd support such a move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandennison Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Elaborating a bit, in our translation reviews, we use two or three projectors in front of the committee. One has Bibledit, another Accordance or Bibleworks, and the third if present has Adapt-It which is free software for doing back translations. It would be super useful if Accordance could import standard format, USFM, and USFX as either a user module or as a text. If the interlinear feature was expanded to allow an edit mode, we could then do the back translation right inside of Accordance and skip having to use Adapt-It entirely. Best, we could then stack up the target translation alongside the typically English or French back translation. That would be sweet. Bonus points for then allowing tags to be inserted so that you end up with both a tagged native and back translation! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Elaborating a bit, in our translation reviews, we use two or three projectors in front of the committee. One has Bibledit, another Accordance or Bibleworks, and the third if present has Adapt-It which is free software for doing back translations. It would be super useful if Accordance could import standard format, USFM, and USFX as either a user module or as a text. If the interlinear feature was expanded to allow an edit mode, we could then do the back translation right inside of Accordance and skip having to use Adapt-It entirely. Best, we could then stack up the target translation alongside the typically English or French back translation. That would be sweet. Bonus points for then allowing tags to be inserted so that you end up with both a tagged native and back translation! I like all of these ideas! It would indeed be useful if Accordance could be used alongside Bibledit and/or Paratext. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ιακοβ Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 It would be super useful if Accordance could import standard format, USFM, and USFX as either a user module or as a text. If the interlinear feature was expanded to allow an edit mode, we could then do the back translation right inside of Accordance and skip having to use Adapt-It entirely. Best, we could then stack up the target translation alongside the typically English or French back translation. That would be sweet. This!! None of the tools for bible translation work are that great, so I ended up deciding to work using a text editor (vim) to edit raw USFM files directly. It is a little annoying at times, but it is a lot more efficient than trying to work with some of the free products. Being able to import my translation work from USFM into accordance (or even to script up a translation of USFM into an accordance compatible format) would be really handy. Having put the work into doing my own translations, not being able to use it with accordance (alongside commentaries and so on) is quite frustrating. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Would Haiola help you convert it ? http://haiola.org/ Alternatively something in Python, or something similar, would be easy to do if you USFM doesn't use too many of the possible tags. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ιακοβ Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Would Haiola help you convert it ? http://haiola.org/ Alternatively something in Python, or something similar, would be easy to do if you USFM doesn't use too many of the possible tags. Interesting site. I checked it out, it doesn't anywhere list Accordance output as an option. Otherwise it would have been great. (And yes I do use quite a significantly large range of the USFM tags. I generally use it not just to hold a translation, but all the translation notes, study notes, cross-references and other such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 We are interested to receive (privately or here in the forums) an evaluation of the usefulness of Paratext versus Accordance. Paratext was developed by SIL, and now in cooperation with UBS. It is primarily a tool for translators. Do any of you have experience using it? I belive Helen haden't ask this without reason But it's great to talk here about the "Bible tranlation" topic, this shows interest. From the beginning Accordance was more a tool for research the Bible, that was great but only one part. Hopefully in 12th version comes another part in addition. Singn me in even I didn't have any experience with paratext. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Hey Ιακοβ, So I had to convert the Sinaiticus from the not quite TEI XML format that the Sinaiticus project used. To do that I wrote a bunch of Python. It was built on the idea of loading the data in through essentially an adapter that read a particular format, and then converted it to an internal form. Then wrote it out using an adapter that wrote Accordance bible import format. It was done that way so that alternative inputs and outputs could be supported if required. In that sense it's a little like what hiola does. In the case you have it would be possible to write an input adapter to read USFM and render internally the biblical text itself and emit that in Accordance format. With more enhancement it would be possible to do something with the notes and such. But they would end up in either a notes file or more likely a user tool. Even with this approach there would some limitations no doubt. I had been going to open source the code on GitHub but haven't gotten around to cleaning things up enough and double checking the doc and such. But if you are interested in the code (I think you have said you code in some other post, but perhaps I mis-remember) you would be welcome to it. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ιακοβ Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Hey Ιακοβ, So I had to convert the Sinaiticus from the not quite TEI XML format that the Sinaiticus project used. To do that I wrote a bunch of Python. It was built on the idea of loading the data in through essentially an adapter that read a particular format, and then converted it to an internal form. Then wrote it out using an adapter that wrote Accordance bible import format. It was done that way so that alternative inputs and outputs could be supported if required. In that sense it's a little like what hiola does. In the case you have it would be possible to write an input adapter to read USFM and render internally the biblical text itself and emit that in Accordance format. With more enhancement it would be possible to do something with the notes and such. But they would end up in either a notes file or more likely a user tool. Even with this approach there would some limitations no doubt. I had been going to open source the code on GitHub but haven't gotten around to cleaning things up enough and double checking the doc and such. But if you are interested in the code (I think you have said you code in some other post, but perhaps I mis-remember) you would be welcome to it. Thx D I believe its written in python yea? Its probably the only language I haven't put any time into learning. If I remember correctly, the spacing being part put me off. These days I am enjoying writing using go. Certainly we do need a great project like this, but for me personally, I can't see myself adding python to the list of things I need to learn this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaB Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I wish I could get a chance to use Paratext. Right now i'm working on using Bibledit. I also installed Sile and had a look at that today. If anyone knows a way I can gain access to Paratext I would really appreciate it. It would be great if I could remotely join a typesetting team if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ιακοβ Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) I wish I could get a chance to use Paratext. Right now i'm working on using Bibledit. I also installed Sile and had a look at that today. If anyone knows a way I can gain access to Paratext I would really appreciate it. It would be great if I could remotely join a typesetting team if possible. I looked at it and contacted them, there appears no way that they would allow it, they don't even sell it as a product. It seems access to that software is reserved for special people, which is their prerogative I guess. Best to stick to software by people that actually want to make a way to allow people to use it. Based on the screenshots, it doesn't seem like it is that great anyway, the main benefit of Paratext is that it has an associated well documented text based bible file format, which has become somewhat of a de facto standard. Edited November 18, 2016 by Ιακοβ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Does "well documented" mean, Accordance will be able after programming to support this file format? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ιακοβ Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 (edited) Does "well documented" mean, Accordance will be able after programming to support this file format? Technically, yes. It seems that a reasonably reliable conversion to/from the user bible format and the usfm format would be not overly difficult. I'm not sure if there would be any legal issues though, I'm not sure if you could sell a product containing converter. I suspect it would be possible, but I don't know for sure—the only way to avoid the slightest change of legal issues would be to get permission from the person/people who wrote the file format specifications. Edited November 19, 2016 by Ιακοβ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 (edited) Paratext 8 will allow anyone to use Paratext "on the basic tier". See http://pt8.paratext.org/registration/ for a chart showing who can use it and the differences between the tiers. I guess the main issue is that PT had many built-in copyrighted resources, so they limited its use to a certain set of users. However, now it seems they are able to provide the basic program to anyone, and those "who are vetted as having a translation role in a qualifying Bible translation organization are on the Translator or Publisher tiers", i.e., they get the copyrighted content. At least that's my understanding. Bibledit uses the same USFM format, is free, is open source, and the web-based version of it is very well supported by the developer. NOTE TO ACCORDANCE: a way to bring USFM-coded Bibles into Accordance would be a wonderful, amazing, welcome, super-duper thing. Please???? Edited November 19, 2016 by EricC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ιακοβ Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Your right, it appears their policy has changed with regards to allowing other translators to use the software. Thats good news. However with regards to USFM, simply because another piece of software uses that format, it doesn't mean its not legally encumbered. I can't see any legal statement that would allow an assumption that it is free to use. There have certainly been cases in the past where standards that are openly known and used, were found to be legal problematic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_format http://paratext.org/about/usfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaB Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Paratext 8 will allow anyone to use Paratext "on the basic tier". See http://pt8.paratext.org/registration/ for a chart showing who can use it and the differences between the tiers. I guess the main issue is that PT had many built-in copyrighted resources, so they limited its use to a certain set of users. However, now it seems they are able to provide the basic program to anyone, and those "who are vetted as having a translation role in a qualifying Bible translation organization are on the Translator or Publisher tiers", i.e., they get the copyrighted content. At least that's my understanding. Bibledit uses the same USFM format, is free, is open source, and the web-based version of it is very well supported by the developer. NOTE TO ACCORDANCE: a way to bring USFM-coded Bibles into Accordance would be a wonderful, amazing, welcome, super-duper thing. Please???? Thanks for posting this. I just registered and installed the Paratext 8 pre-release. It's just want I was looking for. I like how everything is color coded in Standard mode. Registering and installing the software was very easy. I was and still will use Bibledit. When away from my PC I will use Bibledit and on my PC I will use Paratext 8. Somethings I would copy paste directly out the USFM PDF from paratext.org would not show correctly in the final preview on Bibledit. Now I can just work from both programs since Bibledit also works with Paratext. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 I'm still interested for Accordance XIII. I see in the image from http://pt8.paratext.org/features/the disadvantage from absence of a numbering system. Even if they are visible as interlinear . If the App would connect just by creating a Bible the words with Strongs or GK this would be a great advantage. Then all Bible came tagged. At the moment there is a huge amount of work to tag it afterwards. Which mostly all denied to do. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandennison Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Helen, Any news on this front? I remain interested in this topic. The tools scene for translators is a target rich environment, and should be easy for OakTree to show compelling differentiation. Given your experiences with HCSB I suspect you all have your own thoughts on how editors should work as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 +1 for OSIS format too. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 I ported Bibledit to Windows. While Paratext is nice it has considerable licensing issues. Bibledit can sync your place with Bibleworks and adding an Accordance sync would be helpful. 1. How do you do that? 2. Does the sync now work since Accordance implemented it? If yes then it would be good if this feature works with the Mac version too. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 I had that same experience but when I looked at it it looked good. I then tried CTE but it's more for critical editions than translation per se. so I never went beyond the demos. Thx D CTE? Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Classical Text Editor Http://cte.oeaw.ac.at/?id0=main Thx D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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