Jump to content


Photo

DCH

find a page in dch

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Yohanan

Yohanan

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 22 September 2014 - 03:31 AM

Hi,

 

I still have some difficulties with the use of the dictionaries of Hebrew. Often by clicking on the word in the BHS text I am led to the wrong place in the dictionary (DCH or BDB) and in the field at the bottom of the window I can see the word where I have been led. For example yesterday for Avanaim I was led to ’avadon.

 

Right now I wonder how I could get to a page of the DCH which is indicated for one meaning as part of the third volume. I discovered the pop menu which, down at the bottom, offers to search for a page in the dict., but then the page corresponds to a root far before the one indicated, most probably because it is the first volume which has been chosen by Accordance for the search. Mine was in DCH 3. Can you tell me how to give the indication of the volume before the page or somewhere else in Accordance ? 

 

Thanks in advance for any help. I know I should take a few days once to thoroughly explore Accordance.

 

All the best.

 

Yohanan 



#2 Helen Brown

Helen Brown

    Emerald

  • Admin
  • 11,112 posts
  • Twitter:accordancebible
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:heart in Israel
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 22 September 2014 - 03:43 AM

The best way to add accuracy, especially for DCH which does cite so many of the occurrences, is to set the Preferences: General to Include the Verse Reference when Amplifying.

 

This is an unusual case as the lemma has been defined as Avanaim (with aleph) rather than Even, and that word is only found in the Hebrew contents in DCH, not as a main entry which it is in HALOT. That's why it's taking you to another word unless you include the verse reference.


  • David Knoll likes this
Helen Brown
OakTree Software

#3 Gordon

Gordon

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 609 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 22 September 2014 - 04:57 AM

If the word you are referring to is the one in Exodus 1:16,   וּרְאִיתֶ֖ן עַל־הָאָבְנָ֑יִם

 I believe that the correct pronounciation is as Sarna points out in the JPS Bible Commentary, ie, ʾovnayim because the vowel under the aleph is a kamatz katan.

 

KM Dictionary has ʾāḇᵉnayim but I believe that this gives an incorrect pronounciation of the word unless the ʾā is an indication of a kamatz katan.


Edited by Gordon, 22 September 2014 - 04:57 AM.

‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#4 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 932 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monet
  • Interests:heritage homes, antiques, gardens, fresh food, good coffee, live music, ויין אשר ישמח לבב אנוש (Ps 104,15)
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 22 September 2014 - 03:07 PM

Hi,

 

The plural of אֶבֶן is אֲבָנִים . Yohanan's "Avanaim" with the dual ending (a[y]im) led Gordon to the word/separate entry אָבְנַיִם in HAL, or אֹבֶן in CDCH (the singular is unattested, so marked

*אֹבֶן in HAL and [אֹבֶן] in CDCH).

 

Gordon is correct, ָ  is qametz qatan (short "o" class) because it is in an unaccented, closed syllable.

 

Yohanan's post is relevant to my recent one - Regarding #2, "Lexicons do not always find the text you are looking for." If I could edit that post, I would add, Please don't confuse my add homonym request for an ad hominem attack on Accordance. I love Accordance; see the remarks below.

 

The Lord had placed a burden on my heart to write such a post, but I pleaded with Him to provide a context in which I could do it. It seemed like the Lord provided it with the "Thread on Logos Forum" on Sept. 17. I even waited a day to see if the thread would stay up before I submitted my reply. After the thread was locked, the Lord led me to believe that He would provide another context to address the issue. I believe this simple post by Yohanan is that provision.

 

Surprisingly, in the iPad and desktop instant details pop ups, the correct entry [אֹבֶן] comes up for הָאָבְנָ֑יִם in Exod 1:16. I say surprisingly, because if you triple click in the desktop, אֶבֵן is the entry that appears at the top of the window, which is long enough that a new student or reader might not see the next entry, [אֹבֶן]. You will only see both entries on the same screen with fonts set very small. Even more surprisingly, when I triple click הָאָבְנָ֑יִם with BDB set as my lexicon, I get: גָּזִית n.f. a cutting, hewing.hewing, ’אַבְנִים ג‎ = hewn stones (building-stones) (for tables); also without אבני = hewn stones (altar).

 

With the Hebrew lexicons tagged to the first homograph, or verbs instead of nouns, etc., along with the inevitable errors that creep in, users are sometimes led to incorrect entries, which can lead to more Yohanan-like experiences. Those of us who have taught beginning biblical Hebrew know that אֲבָנִים and אָבְנָיִם look alike to many students, so they might not look further than the plural of אֶבֶן. We also know that it takes them a while to deal with homographs in a lexicon. It is a long progression from learning a gloss or two for a word, to recognizing different uses/nuances/etc. for a word (and how this is done), to recognizing homographs, each of which could have its own different nuances, etc. If they were directed to the correct entry, students/readers would at least be spared of the types of confusion that even lexicography can deal them, especially at an early stage.

 

I love Accordance. I am a kindred spirit to Julie who said, "I would give up my dishwasher before I'd give up Accordance (and I really don't particularly love doing dishes)." I live on a homestead in rural Manitoba, and homesteading is my full time job. Since my wife is the current bread winner I do a lot of dishes, mostly with the dishwasher. But I would also give it up before Accordance.

 

I especially love rapidly reading the NT with my iPad. The experience is light years ahead of reading the NT in Logos on the ipad. Simply put, it is a one-step process in Accordance, and a four-step one in Logos (if you actually want to see the lexical entry; but in fairness, it is almost always the correct one). I only wish Accordance would press their advantage in this area to rapidly reading the OT/HB, by tagging to the correct entry. I also have a burden that students and readers need this.

 

Last, but not least, the less time one spends navigating a lexicon in their pursuit of learning Hebrew, the more time one can bank for future grammatical and syntactical searches, which are simply pure joy.

 

 

Michel


Edited by Michel Gilbert, 06 October 2014 - 04:37 PM.

  • Abram K-J and Susan like this

Accordance 12.2.5 & 2.6.4

   Mac mini, High Sierra, 10.13.4
   iPad mini, 11.3.1

Android, 1.1.0b21 (9769)

   Huawei, Android 6.0.1


#5 Abram K-J

Abram K-J

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,752 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greater Boston, MA
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:22 PM

If I could edit that post, I would add, Please don't confuse my add homonym request for an ad hominem attack on Accordance.

 

Ha! Love it. Well said.

 

Totally agreed about the iPad/rapid reading assessment.

 

On the same topic (both as the OP, but especially as Michel's post)--I remember when Accordance added the Include Verse Reference Feature When Amplifying, that Helen mentions above. It has improved things somewhat in this regard, but of course not completely, as Michel notes.

 

One thing occurs to me, though (but without programming knowledge to assess what would be involved): since the Hebrew Bible is a limited corpus, could there be some way to go through the sorts of words in question (on a verse-by-verse basis) and program them to key/line up to the correct homograph?


Abram K-J
Pastor, Writer, Editor, Blogger
Web: Words on the Word

#6 Yohanan

Yohanan

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 131 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 23 September 2014 - 03:34 AM

Greetings to all, and thank you for correcting my wrong transcription of the word - as well as the lessons in basic Biblical Hebrew morphology I have been gratified with this - though I was not considering the question of its pronunciation when hastily calling for help. Always good to be called to more attentive and exact reference. 

 

Thank you so much Helen for the tip, it works and this is what matters.

 

Yohanan



#7 David Knoll

David Knoll

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 23 September 2014 - 05:01 AM

The best way to add accuracy, especially for DCH which does cite so many of the occurrences, is to set the Preferences: General to Include the Verse Reference when Amplifying.
 
This is an unusual case as the lemma has been defined as Avanaim (with aleph) rather than Even, and that word is only found in the Hebrew contents in DCH, not as a main entry which it is in HALOT. That's why it's taking you to another word unless you include the verse reference.


Hi Helen,
Is this possible on iOS as well?
This occurs many times with LSJ and LS on my iPad for some reason

#8 Helen Brown

Helen Brown

    Emerald

  • Admin
  • 11,112 posts
  • Twitter:accordancebible
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:heart in Israel
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 23 September 2014 - 05:17 AM

No, the multi field search is not supported on iOS. You can amplify and page down to the correct result, but it doesn't always appear in Instant Details. We will look into ways of improving this.


  • David Knoll likes this
Helen Brown
OakTree Software

#9 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 932 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monet
  • Interests:heritage homes, antiques, gardens, fresh food, good coffee, live music, ויין אשר ישמח לבב אנוש (Ps 104,15)
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:16 AM

No, the multi field search is not supported on iOS. You can amplify and page down to the correct result, but it doesn't always appear in Instant Details. We will look into ways of improving this.

 

I see that the homograph issue in instant details is much improved in iOS 1.7.7.

 

Thank you very much Helen and Accordance team

 

 

Michel


Accordance 12.2.5 & 2.6.4

   Mac mini, High Sierra, 10.13.4
   iPad mini, 11.3.1

Android, 1.1.0b21 (9769)

   Huawei, Android 6.0.1


#10 Rick Bennett

Rick Bennett

    Mithril

  • Accordance
  • 2,572 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa Bay, FL
  • Interests: gadgets, coffee, running and cycling, Rays baseball
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS

Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:35 PM

 

 

I see that the homograph issue in instant details is much improved in iOS 1.7.7.

 

 

Thank you very much Helen and Accordance team

 

 

 

Michel

 

 

This is because v. 1.7.7 shares the code for the upcoming 10.4.5 desktop release that addressed this. I'm glad to hear it is working well on iOS.


  • Michel Gilbert likes this

Rick Bennett
Director of Content Development


#11 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 932 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monet
  • Interests:heritage homes, antiques, gardens, fresh food, good coffee, live music, ויין אשר ישמח לבב אנוש (Ps 104,15)
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:25 PM

Hi Rick,

 

I noticed it right away in 1.7.7, and I praised the Lord.

 

I figured it would also be programmed in 10.4.5 and/or 11. It's wonderful news.

 

Please pass on my thanks to the whole team.

 

Regards,

 

 

Michel


  • David Knoll likes this

Accordance 12.2.5 & 2.6.4

   Mac mini, High Sierra, 10.13.4
   iPad mini, 11.3.1

Android, 1.1.0b21 (9769)

   Huawei, Android 6.0.1





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users