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Discouraged in Learning Greek


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#41 revtim

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 10:14 AM

Rafe,

 

I wanted to encourage you. I was able to take Greek in both my undergrad & seminary. I used Black in college & Mounce in seminary. It is a fog, it is hard, there will be times you want to throw in the towel.

 

But here is the good news:

 

I needed to take a hiatus from the ministry (12 long years) and did not have the time to "keep up" with it. I recently have been blessed to return to the pastorate and found that even after 12 years, I can still do a reasonably decent job of translating Greek.

 

Your hard work will pay off!!! Don't give up!!!


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#42 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 12:23 PM

@Steve
 
You might try Anki at http://ankisrs.net/. Truly wonderful piece of software.

 

Hey Rokas,

 

  Have you tried getting this to work on Android with a reasonable font ? The program looks good but I am going to need to get a better font installed which is harder than it should be (still) on Android. If you have done this, any tips ? If not no worries, I'll figure it out, but I thought I'd ask.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

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#43 rokas

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:10 PM

@Daniel

 

Is this reasonable enough? :)

Attached Files



#44 RafeAndersen

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:12 PM

Rafe,

 

I wanted to encourage you. I was able to take Greek in both my undergrad & seminary. I used Black in college & Mounce in seminary. It is a fog, it is hard, there will be times you want to throw in the towel.

 

But here is the good news:

 

I needed to take a hiatus from the ministry (12 long years) and did not have the time to "keep up" with it. I recently have been blessed to return to the pastorate and found that even after 12 years, I can still do a reasonably decent job of translating Greek.

 

Your hard work will pay off!!! Don't give up!!!

I really don't get why it has to be such a fog. I see no way out of it. 



#45 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:19 PM

@Daniel

 

Is this reasonable enough? :)

Quite but what font are you using to do that ? I downloaded a deck today of classical Greek and accented characters are not showing up at all but are rendered blank. I admit I have yet to test it on the desktop but the images with the deck at least indicate that it should render ok somewhere. I probably need a font manager installed or to get a FlipFont as Samsung has FlipFont support.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
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Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#46 rokas

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:28 PM

For Greek "SBL Greek", for Hebrew "Ezra SIL".

 

Install them in your pc, and then set them in the "Cards" dialog window - see the attached pic. Then upload collection to web, and then download it to your Android device. Anki should sync all fonts automatically. This won't work using Android only, because you cannot change fonts on Android.

 

That should be it  :)

Attached Files


Edited by rokas, 26 November 2014 - 01:28 PM.


#47 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:29 PM

I really don't get why it has to be such a fog. I see no way out of it. 

 

I must say that I am not at all convinced that it is the most helpful thing for a teacher to say - there is a fog out there. If anyone has seen/read Steven King's The Mist it can conjure up many terrifying things. Students will have difficulties in different places - of course in a class room one can simply deal with what arises when it arises with those in whom it arises. Online, cover as-many-bases-as-possible training is of course not permitted this luxury.

 

The point I think is that there is a mass of data to consume and order. People think differently, the Greeks from us, the Israelites from them, you from me. We all need to internalize the material to some degree for it to be manageable. That is just work. When I was learning to ride a horse some days appeared to be a disaster and others better. Sometimes it would all go beautifully and that was the fruit of the bad days, where I made effort in spite of apparently seeing no result, was being seen.

 

I've been at biblical Greek for three years now pretty solidly - I have good and bad days - this morning was nice - two days ago not so nice. Thems the breaks. Franz Mieringer (sp ?) was known to have said something to the effect that "to ride a horse the first thing is to stay on".

 

Thx

D


For Greek "SBL Greek", for Hebrew "Ezra SIL".

 

Install them in your pc, and then set them in the "Cards" dialog window - see the attached pic. Then upload collection to web, and then download it to your Android device. Anki should sync all fonts automatically. This won't work using Android only, because you cannot change fonts on Android.

 

That should be it  :)

Many thanx - I'll take a bash.

 

thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#48 rokas

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:31 PM

let me know if that works, if not, I'll try to help - for me in the beginning setting those fonts right on Android wasn't easy at all.



#49 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:37 PM

Will do - thanx again.

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#50 Scott Saunders

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 02:28 PM

I really don't get why it has to be such a fog. I see no way out of it. 

 

Rafe, when starting any new thing—it always starts out as new (hence the word "new.")

 

New does mean strange, foreign, unfamiliar.

 

"Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore." New can mean adventure.

 

You've got to live with newness for a while and then it becomes old hat, common, local, native.

 

Where would the Avengers be if Tony Stark didn't battle through the fog the crucible of newness?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=o0YX0LT1x98

 

Koine is an adventure. Suit up and fly.


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#51 Julia Falling

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:10 PM

 

I must say that I am not at all convinced that it is the most helpful thing for a teacher to say - there is a fog out there. If anyone has seen/read Steven King's The Mist it can conjure up many terrifying things. Students will have difficulties in different places - of course in a class room one can simply deal with what arises when it arises with those in whom it arises. Online, cover as-many-bases-as-possible training is of course not permitted this luxury.

 

The point I think is that there is a mass of data to consume and order. People think differently, the Greeks from us, the Israelites from them, you from me. We all need to internalize the material to some degree for it to be manageable. That is just work. When I was learning to ride a horse some days appeared to be a disaster and others better. Sometimes it would all go beautifully and that was the fruit of the bad days, where I made effort in spite of apparently seeing no result, was being seen.

 

I've been at biblical Greek for three years now pretty solidly - I have good and bad days - this morning was nice - two days ago not so nice. Thems the breaks. Franz Mieringer (sp ?) was known to have said something to the effect that "to ride a horse the first thing is to stay on".

 

 

Daniel – I found the fog analogy helpful, but I don't read or watch Stephen King.  Pride and Prejudice is more my speed.

 

When I was in first year Greek, there really was fog at times, but it was never the 'pea soup' variety (= so dense I had no idea where I was).  As material was learned and new material was introduced, the fog moved along.  I just kept at it.  Along with almost the entire class.  I can think of only one who dropped out.  Everyone else stuck it out.  And about ⅔ of the class went on to take 2nd year.  We ended up with only 6 for 3rd year.

 

I like with the quote about staying on the horse.  Just sticking with it is important.  I also think that going into it with the determination not to be intimidated helps.  I still study and dig through my grammars, but need to take the time to read through all of Wallace and add what I learn to my Notes.  We used the abbreviated version of this book in 2nd year Greek.  Maybe after we finish this 'pre-Hebrew' class.

 

I don't consider myself a scholar, or a Greek master.  I have, however, reached the point of being comfortable with the language and able to understand the technical commentaries.  I would encourage anyone who has the desire to learn the Greek to go ahead and take the plunge.


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#52 Mark Nigro

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:34 PM

 

Mark – How does Mental Case do with fonts?  Some of the card decks in iFlash come up in gibberish, at least for Hebrew.

Julie, I've had no problems with the fonts in Mental Case so far. Both Hebrew and Greek render quite well. If I could choose all over again now, I might try other free apps first to see if they would do the job. I tried Anki years ago and ended up deciding for Mental case which was at the time much further along in development than Anki was. Can't say now how Anki is, but the app is free on the Mac OS. Beware, however, that the mobile companion version for iPhone is a pricey $24.99. 


Edited by Mark Nigro , 26 November 2014 - 04:36 PM.

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#53 Mark Nigro

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:38 PM

Rafe, have you ever learned a foreign language before starting Greek?


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#54 Julia Falling

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:42 PM

Thanks, Mark.  The iOS version is only $4.99.  From what I can tell, the iOS functions independently – I wouldn't need iPhone/iPad version plus Mac OS version.  The version at iTunes is Mental Case 2.  Is that what you have?


Julia Falling

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#55 Mark Nigro

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:03 PM

Julie. Yes, I have Mental Case 2.0. About the price, I was referring to Anki's mobile version being costly. Not sure if that was clear...


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#56 Julia Falling

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:06 PM

Thanks, Mark.  I new knew it was Anki that was pricey.  Just wanting to make sure Mental Case 2 can be used by buying only the iOS version.  I didn't see anything about needing it for the Mac, too, to make it work so I'm assuming it's a go.


Edited by Julie Falling, 27 November 2014 - 12:13 AM.

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Used for backup only:
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late-2012 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 (4 cores)
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#57 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:08 PM

Hey Julie,

 

  Given that you spelled his name correctly whereas I did not, I wonder :)

  Seriously though my main issue was whether the warning not to be apprehensive (more or less why Mounce makes the statement I believe, if I recall it correctly) has in and of itself led to apprehension or not. I might add that Mounce's material does a great deal to make sense of what would otherwise very much appear like a pea-souper.

 

  Wallace is good I think in that he is pretty comprehensive - though I still find things I have to look up elsewhere. But he is very detailed (too much so at times ? Some of his categories seem very close together) and you're right it takes a good sit and a cup of coffee.

 

Thx

D


Julie. Yes, I have Mental Case 2.0. About the price, I was referring to Anki's mobile version being costly. Not sure if that was clear...

Go Android - it's free like the desktop app.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#58 RafeAndersen

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:12 PM

Rafe, have you ever learned a foreign language before starting Greek?

No I have not :(



#59 Peter Brylov Christensen

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:31 PM

Rafe, have you ever learned a foreign language before starting Greek?

 

 

No I have not :(

Hm - perhaps a different approach is needed, then. At my faculty, the first language new students take on is neither Ancient Greek nor Biblical Hebrew, but Latin. After they have learned Latin, only then may they proceed to learn Greek (and subsequently Hebrew). While Latin is not a Biblical original language per se (unless you count the Vulgate), it still might be a good idea to learn that first due to the following reasons:
 

1. You don't have to learn a new alphabet.

While learning a new alphabet shouldn't pose any real trouble, it still takes time getting used to a new script, so that's one less thing to worry about.

 

2. A huge part of the Latin vocabulary resembles many common nouns and verbs used in many modern Indo-European languages, making Latin very approachable even with no prior knowledge.

Greek has also contributed a lot to the vocabularies of many modern Indo-European languages, but I find that these words are to a somewhat lesser extent used in every day speech compared to Latin words.

 

3. Most of the Latin grammar you learn can easily be recycled for Greek.

..And pretty much every single language belonging to the Indo-European family, too. Even the ones that don't have cases.
 

4. Grammatical terms and paradigms themselves are almost always in Latin (or at least resemble Latin in English).

Understanding what these terms literally mean will also prevent you from being alienated e.g. when you see abbreviated latin terms in dictionaries and grammars for other languages.

 

5. The language of choice for any Biblical apparatus is Latin - all abbreviated, too.

Assuming that you wish to be able to read the critical editions of the Bible in Greek (and perhaps Hebrew some day), knowing Latin will make it a whole lot easier.

 

All in all, by learning Latin, you'll have a lot of basic linguistic tools at your disposal, making Greek a lot less difficult to learn. It will, however, still be quite a challenge sometimes. That is true for any language.

 

Best of luck to you!

 

Non scholae, sed vitae! (Not for school, but for life) :)

Pchris


Edited by Pchris, 26 November 2014 - 07:37 PM.

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#60 Mark Nigro

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 09:29 PM

Rafe, I presumed that you hadn't studied any other language by the level of discouragement you've been expressing.

 

This explains why, in part, you are experiencing so much confusion and sense of frustration. Leaning any language is hard work, learning the biblical languages is harder than most others out there.

 

Once you break out of what I call the "English-only" thinking pattern by learning one foreign language, learning others (including Greek and Hebrew) becomes much easier. 

 

I went through a great deal of difficulty when I learned Serbian (Serbo-Croatian) with its extremely complex grammar and two alphabets (one Latin based and the other cyrillic). But once I made that breakthrough, I began to understand the general way in which languages function. But that is hard to do when the only language one knows is English, and probably has never had to think about how the grammar works or why things are the way they are. 

 

Later when I learned Italian, genders, plurality and verb morphology were already familiar because of Serbian. And finally, when I learned Greek, my background in Serbian (a language which shares a lot of its grammar with Greek) helped me tremendously. It didn't help at all with Hebrew, but that's another story :)

 

So all that to say, you are not unique in your struggle. Your best bet is to get with someone who can answer your questions in a way that makes sense. Trying to figure out how or why things are the way they are in Greek, on your own, and having never learned another language, is no small task. Maybe find a forum or get a partner or, better yet, both. But find an outlet to ask questions and find camaraderie. And keep on going, friend. 


Edited by Mark Nigro , 26 November 2014 - 09:49 PM.

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Mark Nigro

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2016 MacBook Pro / 2.7 GHz Intel Core i5 / 8 GB 1867 MHz DDR3

OSX Sierra 10.2

iPhone 6S





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