What is this cantillation mark?

[Abram K-J]

Is this a cantillation mark (under the resh) with which I'm just not familiar, or something else? I've never seen it before, that I recall. (Jonah 3:10, using BHS-T)

 

 

[Anthony Sepulveda]

The arrow-like symbol is called 'yetiv', I think, since it's further to the right. A similar symbol 'mahpach' is positioned more to the left. But as of the moment, I don't know what it's for.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Anthony Sepulveda

[Abram K-J]

Here--it's at Genesis 1:31, too. It looks like scissors.

 

Note that the two patachs before it bleed together, so perhaps it's another instance of two pointings bleeding together to look like one?

 

 

I vaguely recall a forum thread where a user mentioned pointing being not aligned, someone from Accordance said it was really hard to align, etc., so maybe this is related.

[Gedalya]

In both cases it is your typical mahpach... the series is : mahpach pashta zakef katan...nothing out of the ordinary but perhaps the placement of the vowels and the cantillation is confusing you.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Gordon

[Abram K-J]

So the cantillation mark under the yud is supposed to be more visually distinct from the shewa under the resh, yes? That's what threw me, I think. It's hard to make in the Accordance text, even when blown up to full size.

[Gedalya]

The vav has a patach under it

next the yud has a patach under it

but look like they got squished together into what looks like one long patach line but if you make the font larger there is a space between the two patachs

then comes the cantillation mark after the second patach

then comes the resh with the sheva under it or the sheva is a tiny bit off to the left in some printed editions to accommodate the cantilation mark

Edited December 11, 2014 by Gordon

[Abram K-J]

Thanks--that's the best I could make of it, too. Glad for the confirmation.

 

Helen, you may have chimed in on this already earlier in the forums: is Accordance going to work on vowel/cantillation placement in Hebrew texts like this, or did you say it's a lost cause with the font?

 

If the latter, I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to workarounds, so it's easier to read in such instances.

[Gedalya]

Now I see if you enlarge the font on the word, the two patachs do have a small space between them.

[Abram K-J]

Well, yes, at 96-point font... but in such cases I suppose that's what I'll do if questions arise.

[Michel Gilbert]

Well, yes, at 96-point font... but in such cases I suppose that's what I'll do if questions arise.

 

. . . or, go to this site, which displays the cantillation beautifully

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/c/ct/c0.htm

 

Click the books at

 

 

For your verses you will see

 

 

You can easily zoom in or out with your browser.

 

If you don't know how to read Hebrew numbers, I'm sure Gordon and Anthony would be glad to help you.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[Abram K-J]

Thank you, Michel--the font you link to is clear, distinct, and easy to read.

 

I hope it's not too much to expect a readability/accuracy improvement in Accordance here, so I don't have to leave the program to read some Hebrew words?

[Gedalya]

Yes, Michel, I often go that site as well.

[Michel Gilbert]

Thank you, Michel--the font you link to is clear, distinct, and easy to read.

 

I hope it's not too much to expect a readability/accuracy improvement in Accordance here, so I don't have to leave the program to read some Hebrew words?

 

Well, here is a funny thing. The cantillation appears in Accordance and Logos the same way, but if I copy and paste them, i.e., export them as unicode, and use Ezra SIL, they appear beautifully like on the website. I guess that would be an easier workaround than learning the Hebrew numbers.

 

I think most of the problems boil down to unicode compliance - it seems the lack of compliance is at the root of many problems - from viewing, copying and pasting text, to entering text with different keyboards. I do expect they will fix this, and I do hope it is soon.

 

Regards

[Abram K-J]

Michel, yes, that is interesting, and especially interesting that Logos exports better than it displays (as with Accordance), since its Hebrew is already Unicode even before you export it.

 

I know hardly the first thing about programming, but I think Unicode is the way things are going anyway, and it would be great if that made a difference in this case.

[Michel Gilbert]

 

 

I think Unicode is the way things are going anyway, and it would be great if that made a difference in this case.

 

. . . I cut and paste Jonah 3:10 within Accordance, changed the font to Ezra SIL, and it displays correctly.

 

[Abram K-J]

So it's Accordance's proprietary font that is the issue?