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Accordance to Writing-App(s) Work Flow

mellel nidus writer pro work flow

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#1 Scott Saunders

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 11:48 AM

I’m researching workflow needs for myself and my wife and daughter.

 

Scrivener is our baby; but we’re looking to expand our writing-app family.

 

 

Scrivener is not intended to be a full-blown word processor, but rather a word generating environment. 

 

It is not a layout tool, but a tool for cutting the text that will become your book [or whatever else]. 

 

Many authors who have stricter formatting requirements, ... , will start their projects in Scrivener, and end in a word processor or desktop publishing, or some other specialized application. 

 

(User Manual Scrivener 2.6 for Mac OS X, pg. 178)(I added a line or two and some emphasis. Deleted some stuff. No harm done.)

 

 

I googled Mellel vs Nisus Writer Pro and looky, looky what showed up.

izlq4j.jpg

 

All great threads, each worth a read should you have writing-app workflow needs.

Mellel vs Nisus Writer Pro

Best Word Process for a PhD Dissertation

Exporting Hebrew Text + Word Processors

Academic writing software needs

Question to Bib. Scholars - Accordance with Mellel/BE/DT vs NotaBene

 

FWIW …

Scrivener iOS is coming.

 

Aeon Timeline, which has Scrivener Syncing.

 

Thanks to the experienced, knowledgeable contributors in the above threads,

 

Scott


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Accordance 11.x on Yosemite 10.x


#2 Abram K-J

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 12:45 PM

Thanks for putting this all together in one place!


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#3 R. Mansfield

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 01:04 AM

I know I'm starting to sound like I work for Evernote (but I dont) but I've begun doing all initial drafts of anything in Evernote. It's so convenient because I can pick up where I left off regardless of what device is before me.

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#4 Scott Saunders

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 05:29 AM

Thanks for putting this all together in one place!

My pleasure Abram!


Accordance 11.x on Yosemite 10.x


#5 Scott Saunders

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 05:38 AM

I know I'm starting to sound like I work for Evernote (but I dont) but I've begun doing all initial drafts of anything in Evernote. It's so convenient because I can pick up where I left off regardless of what device is before me.

I've looked at Evernote many, many times. It appears to be excellent; even being able to read text that is in pictures. Snap a picture. Run a search for a word and an image from your smartphone, something that you carry with you everywhere, is right there in the results. Amazing. Handy. The syncing would be so, so nice.

 

I forget why exactly, but I went with DevonThink Pro. I think it was that I saw someone's workflow from DevonThink, to Scrivener, to Mellel and it sold me. But Evernote is brilliant; would have been just as good a decision, maybe even better.


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#6 R. Mansfield

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 05:41 AM

I used DevonThink Pro for years before switching to Evernote. It was the lack of a decent mobile solution that made me switch.

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#7 Abram K-J

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 09:01 AM

Rick--you've answered this before, perhaps (sorry if so), but does their mobile app just lack serious functionality? I would think at $15 it could do a lot, but....


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#8 R. Mansfield

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 09:22 AM

Rick--you've answered this before, perhaps (sorry if so), but does their mobile app just lack serious functionality? I would think at $15 it could do a lot, but....

 

Well, I haven't used it in a long time, but when it first came out, content had to be manually synced over to the mobile version. With Evernote, I can just drop anything into it--my own documents, PDFs, photos, files, whatever--and it's there on any device. 

 

Even with mobile syncing to DTP, I had to choose what I wanted to be mobile because it literally took up space on my iPad. With Evernote, if I've added a file like a PDF, it doesn't download to a mobile device unless I select it to download from within Evernote on the device. In other words, with DTP, I had to always think ahead about what I wanted to carry with me. 

 

And as for PDFs, I found (and again, I haven't used it recently) that the iOS version of DTP did not handle large files well without crashing. On my iPad, if I want to significantly interact with a PDF, although I can view it in Evernote, I tend to open it in GoodReader. 

 

DTP does have a server solution for making your files accessible over the internet, but this was more trouble than what I wanted for what I was doing.

 

I'm often on a Windows machine these days, and there's no DTP solution for Windows. Evernote is everywhere. There's an app for every kind of device, or at the very least, my content can be accessed via a web browser. 


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#9 Abram K-J

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 09:36 AM

 

Well, I haven't used it in a long time, but when it first came out, content had to be manually synced over to the mobile version.

 

Ahem. What mobile app would require manual syncing? ;)

 

More about workflow: if you open a pdf in GoodReader (that is stored in Evernote), what if you want to annotate it in GoodReader and keep those annotations on the document for the next time you access it somewhere else? You can do that if you annotate from within Evernote, right? But is there a way to sync it (with changes) from GoodReader (or PDF Expert, iAnnotate, etc.) back to Evernote, where it sounds like you're storing it?


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#10 R. Mansfield

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:28 PM

 

Ahem. What mobile app would require manual syncing? ;)

 

Fair enough, but I don't use Accordance the way I use these other programs. On iOS I mainly want my Accordance texts because I use the iOS version primarily as a reader or to look up something quickly. As note-taking features improve on iOS, maybe I will use note-taking features more often. 

 

I know that mobile syncing of texts is faster than downloading them, but usually I just download. When I've had to install from scratch, I set it to download as I was going to bed. 

 

With Evernote, it's most handy to me if I have access to everything I've got stored there. Although DTP allows for the creation of RTF and plain text notes, I did not do a lot of composing in the app. I compose in Evernote because it's everywhere, and I can pick up where I left off regardless of what device is in front of me. I used DTP primarily for PDFs, but again, I had to choose which ones I took with me. 

 

I do hope we can eventually sync Library organization and preferences between Windows and Mac versions of Accordance one day. I kind of assume that will eventually happen, but don't take that to mean insider information. I've heard nothing on that front and probably couldn't tell you if I had.


More about workflow: if you open a pdf in GoodReader (that is stored in Evernote), what if you want to annotate it in GoodReader and keep those annotations on the document for the next time you access it somewhere else? You can do that if you annotate from within Evernote, right? But is there a way to sync it (with changes) from GoodReader (or PDF Expert, iAnnotate, etc.) back to Evernote, where it sounds like you're storing it?

 

I could do that manually. GoodReader has an iCloud folder. So, I could annotate a PDF in GoodReader on my iPad, save it to the iCloud folder (or a subfolder of the iCloud folder), and easily access it on my Mac. It could be accessed in Windows either at iCloud.com or if I were to install iCloud Drive in Windows (which I have not done on my Acer or Windows tablets because I can't specify saving the iCloud contents to a drive other than the main one--this may come later). Regardless, I could save the file to iCloud Drive from GoodReader and then from my Mac, place it back in Evernote. 

 

But that sounds like a pain, doesn't it? Originally there were no annotation tools for PDFs in Evernote at all. Now there are, but they are basically the Skitch tools, which I'm not wild about for most of what I might do in a PDF (highlighting and adding an occasional note). 

 

I spend too much time thinking about all this, but I basically use Evernote for five separate functions:

  1. Miscellany. Evernote is a repository of all the miscellany that I might need access to: account numbers, login and password info, the name of my printer when I go to buy ink cartridges, my wife's favorite food orders if I'm picking up dinner, gift idea lists, a snapshot of my license plate for when I'm checking into a hotel so that I don't have to run back and look at it. You get the idea. It doesn't matter what device I'm using--I have access to all this stuff all the time. Good organization and keyword tagging are key, of course. 
  2. Research. Evernote is wonderful for research notes for the same reasons described above. Little snippets of information can be clipped from just about anywhere. I can organize it and have them with me at all times. 
  3. Composition. I often start on one device and finish on another. Or I may have an idea for something I've already begun working on when I only have my iPhone with me. I can simply pull up the same note. This morning, I posted a blog entry interviewing Tim Jenney about his new Bible Study Methods book in Accordance. I composed all of it in Evernote. I started the note as simply a list of questions for Tim. I shared the list with him through a URL that Evernote generated for sharing. After I interviewed Tim, I composed the blog post in that same note. Only near the end did I move the content over to the website software (where I never compose anything). In that whole process, I probably used at least three different devices to access the same note. Right now, the original interview copy is still in Evernote, but eventually, I'll export it as an HTML or PDF into an archived folder and delete the Evernote note. 
  4. PDFs and clipped articles. This is where Evernote primarily replaced DTP for me. I moved thousands of PDF files--mostly articles--into Evernote. I also clip articles from the Internet that I want to save directly to Evernote through the Clip to Evernote plug-in. 
  5. Read later content. I have a "*To Be Read" folder in Evernote that contains a lot of the web-clipped articles that I want to read later but may or may not save. I also recently begin using my Evernote email address for blog subscriptions (such as yours, Abram). These go straight into Evernote. I can read them and delete or save them to another folder if I want to keep them. 

It's the PDFs that I primarily rethink from time to time. I've experimented with having them in OneDrive, which I use fairly heavily, too. Or I could keep them in the GoodReader folder on my iCloud Drive and have easy access to them everywhere except in Windows, where it would take some extra steps to access them. Since I really like reading and annotating PDFs in GoodReader on my iPad, this is what I am strongly considering doing and leaving Evernote to the other four functions. 

 


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#11 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 01:26 PM

It's the PDFs that I primarily rethink from time to time. I've experimented with having them in OneDrive, which I use fairly heavily, too. Or I could keep them in the GoodReader folder on my iCloud Drive and have easy access to them everywhere except in Windows, where it would take some extra steps to access them. Since I really like reading and annotating PDFs in GoodReader on my iPad, this is what I am strongly considering doing and leaving Evernote to the other four functions

 

Hi  Rick,

 

This discussion is exactly what I had in mind when I said, "I would be very interested in hearing about productivity trends in Windows, Android, and iOS devices, including discussions about hardware, apps, and accessories, especially as they relate to increasing productivity in Accordance."

 

I create, edit, annotate, comment on, etc. pdf files in Adobe CS in Windows. But when I upload them to Dropbox and open them in the Adobe iOS app or any other app (iBooks, Textilus, etc.), all of my editing and bookmarks are not there. Like you, I would like to have easy access to these on all my devices. Could you explain how I could open these files in my iPad, even if there are extra steps involved?

 

I'm not asking for detailed instructions, just some direction.

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


Edited by Michel Gilbert, 19 December 2014 - 01:31 PM.


#12 R. Mansfield

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 01:45 PM

 

I create, edit, annotate, comment on, etc. pdf files in Adobe CS in Windows. But when I upload them to Dropbox and open them in the Adobe iOS app or any other app (iBooks, Textilus, etc.), all of my editing and bookmarks are not there. Like you, I would like to have easy access to these on all my devices. Could you explain how I could open these files in my iPad, even if there are extra steps involved?

 

Try opening them in GoodReader. If you don't have a copy you'll have to pay for it unfortunately, but I've yet to find a PDF reader (it will also allow you to view other file types) in iOS that is as full-featured. I can tell you right away that your bookmarks and annotations would remain intact. 

 

Since there is a GoodReader folder in iCloud Drive, I can drop files into the folder directly on my Mac and they show up in GoodReader. Or you can get files into GoodReader in a myriad of ways. You can even email a PDF to your iPad and open it in GoodReader.'

 

You can also create bookmarks and annotations from within GoodReader that will remain when you move the file to another platform.


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#13 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 02:55 PM

Hi Rick,

 

I bought GoodReader, and it calls Bookmarks in Adobe "Outlines." Then I checked Textilus, and it also had my Bookmarks in "Outlines." It was worth buying GoodReader just to discover this.

 

To clarify, I had intermittent problems with annotations in other apps, some of which were resolved after I installed iOS 8.1.2, but I lost my bookmarks in Adobe Reader, and I thought in Textilus.

 

Having Bookmarks/Outlines in GoodReader will help immensely. For example, I cut the pages out of my copy of Allen's Middle Egyptian, scanned and ocr-ed them for my personal use, and made over 150 bookmarks (so far). Now I can work with this file on the iPad like I do on the desktop.

 

So, thanks for the advice. It will really help my workflow.

 

Regards,

 

Michel



#14 R. Mansfield

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 02:59 PM

For example, I cut the pages out of my copy of Allen's Middle Egyptian, scanned and ocr-ed them for my personal use, and made over 150 bookmarks (so far). Now I can work with this file on the iPad like I do on the desktop.

 

I've done that to a number of books I wanted to carry with me--especially books that were probably not going to get digitized anytime soon. GoodReader is very good for carrying those kinds of PDFs. It's nice to be able to highlight sentences on pages that I've scanned myself. 


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#15 Abram K-J

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 03:53 PM

Fair enough, but I don't use Accordance the way I use these other programs. On iOS I mainly want my Accordance texts because I use the iOS version primarily as a reader or to look up something quickly. As note-taking features improve on iOS, maybe I will use note-taking features more often.

 

My sentiments exactly. I was just giving you and the staff a hard time. :) Speaking of auto-sync, you should see the user uprising happening over at the OmniFocus forums regarding lack of automatic sync between mobile and desktop. It's been tame here in these forums by comparison, which is good, I suppose.

 

I could do that manually. GoodReader has an iCloud folder. So, I could annotate a PDF in GoodReader on my iPad, save it to the iCloud folder (or a subfolder of the iCloud folder), and easily access it on my Mac. It could be accessed in Windows either at iCloud.com or if I were to install iCloud Drive in Windows (which I have not done on my Acer or Windows tablets because I can't specify saving the iCloud contents to a drive other than the main one--this may come later). Regardless, I could save the file to iCloud Drive from GoodReader and then from my Mac, place it back in Evernote. 

 

But that sounds like a pain, doesn't it? Originally there were no annotation tools for PDFs in Evernote at all. Now there are, but they are basically the Skitch tools, which I'm not wild about for most of what I might do in a PDF (highlighting and adding an occasional note).

 

As I thought--so now all that's needed is someone to write the app to automate your process! I wonder if Workflow or Launch Center Pro can do that... I haven't used them enough yet to know. Off the top of my head, I don't think they can.

 

I'm not a huge fan of Skitch, either.


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#16 Abram K-J

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 04:36 PM

Michel: there is also iAnnotate (my personal favorite) and PDF Expert to consider.

Rick--love hearing more of your thoughts on Evernote... you've got yourself a good blog post there! :) Thanks for writing that out.


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#17 Martin Zhang

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 04:40 PM

I've been searching for a word processor for a while. It seems that NWP and Mellel are good choices.

But I wonder how they work with Zotero?

 

Zotero is free. And recently I found a way to save the attachments to my Dropbox. I do not need to buy the cloud storage. It's great. I would be very reluctant  to switch to another management such as Bookends or Sente (Haven't tried any of these two yet).

Perhaps a more important reason I do not switch is that I want more people to be able to use it freely. I want to make tutorials so that other people can learn to use it.

Zotero works great on Windows with MS Word. However, recently, I switched to Mac. MS Word on Mac is useless when I need to work with Hebrew.

I wonder the new Mac version of MS Word will support RTL or not?

 

If the new MS Word is not something I should wait for, is it possible for me to find a word processor on Mac that works well with Zotero, just as or similar to the Windows version of MS Word?

 

I could switch to Mellel/NWP and Bookends/Sente. However, this will benefit only myself. I want to use Zotero if it is possible.

 

Another question: Many people have talked about Mellel/NWP exporting to .docx may cause some problem. I was wondering, if I do not export, rather, just copy the final draft into MS Word, and save it to be sent to others. Would it result in any problem? I've seen nobody say that he/she tried this.

 

Blessings,

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#18 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 04:46 PM

I don't know about Zotero integration, I've only played with it on Windows a little, but if you like/want free/donation-ware/opensource take a look at LibreOffice. I use it for Greek, others here use it for Hebrew as well and I hear it's pretty good at that.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


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Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
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#19 Martin Zhang

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 04:49 PM

I don't know about Zotero integration, I've only played with it on Windows a little, but if you like/want free/donation-ware/opensource take a look at LibreOffice. I use it for Greek, others here use it for Hebrew as well and I hear it's pretty good at that.

 

Thx

D

 

Thanks Daniel,

 

Has anyone compared LbreOffice with Mellel/NWP in working with RTL?

I was wondering, if LibreOffice is pretty good and free, why just not use it?

 

Blessings,
Martin

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#20 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 04:59 PM

Hey Martin, Have a poke about the forums. There are various threads on questions like these. Ex: http://www.accordanc...showtopic=12236

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1





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