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Still digging in to Accordance; can someone help construct the Daily Dose?

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#1 rpavich

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 06:29 AM

I've been watching the Daily Dose of Greek and today's verse was 1 John 4:15.
 
I wanted to construct a search to find (based on some comments in the video) places where this occurs:Ιησοῦς ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ
 
which is to say subject/nominative followed by estin and then a predicate/nominative. aka "something/someone equals something/someone."
 
It would seem simple but I've failed each time.
 
Can someone construct this and then just comment on their work a bit so I can learn by doing and watching?

Here is the video

http://vimeo.com/115872978

Edited by rpavich, 07 January 2015 - 06:47 AM.

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#2 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 08:25 AM

One, thank you for introducing the 'daily dose of Greek'; that is really cool.

Two, I don't have a syntactical database of the GNT in Accordance, yet. But, I do have some grammatically tagged ones

Three, I am no expert on construct searches, so take this with a grain of salt, but please 

try this for starters (It picks up 75 hits, one of which being 1 John 4:15):

Attached File  Construct.png   424.58KB   1 downloads


Edited by bkMitchell, 07 January 2015 - 09:00 AM.

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

Currently running Accordance on:

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#3 Jordan S

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 10:10 AM

Hey,

Your post interested me, because I was searching for predicate nominatives not long ago. So, I too am not an expert, but had fun tracking them down.

You can cast your net in a lot of different ways, but what you are essentially looking for is a word that is a [Complement] and a [NOUN nominative] (or you could replace [NOUN ...] with [ANY ...] to include other parts of speech). 

So, a very broad search, might not even require a syntax construction. You could search [Complement] @ [NOUN nominative] pretty easily with the new quick entry feature in Acc11. 

If you wanted a serious syntax search with your specified being verb, you might try something like you see below. 

**I think its right, but maybe someone who is a pro could give me some feedback.**

 

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-01-07 at 8.09.59 AM.png   358.31KB   1 downloads


Edited by Jordan S, 07 January 2015 - 10:33 AM.


#4 rpavich

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 10:36 AM

Thanks for the great info to both of you...I really appreciate it.

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#5 rpavich

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 10:49 AM

bkMitchell:
 

One, thank you for introducing the 'daily dose of Greek'; that is really cool.
Two, I don't have a syntactical database of the GNT in Accordance, yet. But, I do have some grammatically tagged ones
Three, I am no expert on construct searches, so take this with a grain of salt, but please
try this for starters (It picks up 75 hits, one of which being 1 John 4:15):



I did your search and got a different amount of hits!

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#6 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 05:11 PM

Hello again,

 

One possibility for that might be the option in the INFLECT box to use exact form. I un checked/ticked that option but by default it is checked.

Another possibility might be that the when   ἐστιν    is typed automatically the INFLECT box give us 3 or 4 words that are very similar but different and we might be using different words.

The last possibility, I think of, might be that we have a different number of intervening words specified in the Within boxes. 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

Currently running Accordance on:

Windows 10 (64bit)

FRNX Series  (2015)
Core i7-4710 MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz


#7 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 10:26 PM

@rpavich : I did a bit of work on S-PN construction. If you have the syntax add on the notes attached below might be of use. Don't put too much stock in my observations on the text but the search stuff might be of help.

Regarding Brian's method: you will get differing hits if you do not set "Search both directions" and if the search scope is different. I can get 75 with scope set to Sentence.

 

@Jordan : Not a pro but what you have is one of the variants I used. I opened up the construction quite a bit in search of more complicated constructions, where the subject or PN were clauses and so on. This leads to more false positives of course and thus more weeding. I was ultimately trying to see if I could construct something that would find the examples listed in Wallace.

 

Attached File  PredNom.pdf   188.26KB   17 downloads

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


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#8 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 06:22 AM

Nice catch Daniel!

Regarding Brian's method: you will get differing hits if you do not set "Search both directions" and if the search scope is different. I can get 75 with scope set to Sentence.

 

 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

Currently running Accordance on:

Windows 10 (64bit)

FRNX Series  (2015)
Core i7-4710 MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz


#9 rpavich

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 02:57 PM

Ahh...thanks everyone.

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#10 Julia Falling

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:07 PM

Hey – To find all the places in the NT with this exact sequence of words, just enter it (without accent or breathing marks is OK) and put single or double quotes around it.

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-01-08 at 4.01.55 PM.jpg   71.93KB   2 downloads

 

As you see, I only got one more hit.  Is this what you were looking for?


I, too, thank you for introducing us to the Daily Dose of Greek.  Great resource.  


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#11 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:21 PM

I agree! just the kind of thing I've been looking for to stay sharp.


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#12 Peter Brylov Christensen

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:34 PM

I could only find one more, too (1 John 5:5). But there is an almost identical one in John 20:31:

Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν ὁ χριστὸς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ

 

With kind regards

 

Peter Christensen


Edited by Pchris, 08 January 2015 - 04:36 PM.

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#13 rpavich

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 05:02 PM

Julie:
To find all the places in the NT with this exact sequence of words, just enter it (without accent or breathing marks is OK) and put single or double quotes around it.



No. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to know how I could find the following construction:

subject/nominative followed by estin and then a predicate/nominative. aka "something/someone equals something/someone."

Why doesn't the dang quote feature work on this forum? It's driving me nuts!!

Macbook Pro Retina 15"

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iPad IOS 10

 

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#14 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 06:27 PM

"Why doesn't the dang quote feature work on this forum? It's driving me nuts!!"

Yes! I agree with you, and I think this issue has been going on for about a week and half to maybe two weeks.  

 

But, more importantly please continue to come back and ask interesting queries like this (or even boring questions, too)!


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

Currently running Accordance on:

Windows 10 (64bit)

FRNX Series  (2015)
Core i7-4710 MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz


#15 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 06:41 PM

"Why doesn't the dang quote feature work on this forum? It's driving me nuts!!"

Yes! I agree with you, and I think this issue has been going on for about a week and half to maybe two weeks.  

 

But, more importantly please continue to come back and ask interesting queries like this (or even boring questions, too)!

 

What about quoting is not working exactly ? I cannot just highlight some text in a post and hit Quote and it will just include the highlighted text but this has never worked for me. I always hit Quote and then delete from the entire quoted post that it pastes in.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#16 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 07:05 PM

What, browser are you using? I am using google chrome.


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

Currently running Accordance on:

Windows 10 (64bit)

FRNX Series  (2015)
Core i7-4710 MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz


#17 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 07:13 PM

Firefox.

On both Windows and Mac.

 

thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#18 rpavich

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 03:32 AM

What about quoting is not working exactly ? I cannot just highlight some text in a post and hit Quote and it will just include the highlighted text but this has never worked for me. I always hit Quote and then delete from the entire quoted post that it pastes in.
 
Thx
D


In every other forum I surf, quote works as you describe but here when I hit the quote button, nothing happens.

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#19 EricC

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 04:07 AM

In every other forum I surf, quote works as you describe but here when I hit the quote button, nothing happens.

It did that to me some a while ago, too, but now it's working fine. Hmmm. Safari 7.1.2 on Mac OS X.9.5 Mavericks.



#20 rpavich

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 04:08 AM

It did that to me some a while ago, too, but now it's working fine. Hmmm. Safari 7.1.2 on Mac OS X.9.5 Mavericks.


Safari on Yosemite.

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