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Accordance 11 and Surface Pro 3


Larry Wing

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I thought I saw a discussion on this subject but I can't find it. It's it's out there I apologize for duplicating the discussion.

 

I'd be interested in how Acc 11 works on the Surface Pro 3. What size of disk, ram, and CPU is recommended that will offer some decent responsiveness. Has anyone used it with a bluetooth keyboard?

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I see MS has announced a new Surface 3, which runs on [a full version of] Windows 8.1: http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/31/8317597/microsoft-surface-3-tablet-features

 

It should run Accordance just fine, but I'll let others speak to what other specifications it might need.

 

Hmm..., now I am wondering if this is a worthy candidate to become a Hackintosh...

Edited by Timothy Jenney
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I saw that too but read that it'll have an Atom processor (remember netbooks?) although I can't confirm that from the Microsoft web site.  If it's sub-i3 then I don't think I'd be interested. In fact, I'm leery of i3's.

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BBC's article indicates an Intel Atom x7 processor.

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It was interesting seeing the microsoft stand at CeBIT and there is some interesting software being developed for it such as StaffPad. http://www.staffpad.net Interesting times

 

;o)

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Accordance 11 works well with one exception.  Some of the UI elements in the workspace don't scale correctly so they end up very small.  Pop up menus and such scale correctly though.  Here's a screen shot to illustrate the issue. 

 

I'm using a Surface Pro 3 with a Core i5, 8gb ram, and 256gb SSD.  I use the Type Cover with mine.  Accordance is very snappy.  Accordance starts up in less than 5 seconds.  I've timed it.  For another point of reference, Logos takes about 12-15 seconds with a 20gb installation (~2,000+ resources).  The Surface Pro 3 is plenty fast for Accordance.  I only have the Accordance demo so I can't provide feedback on times on search results, but if you have any other functions you'd like me to test on the Surface let me know.  I'll consider purchasing Accordance once these DPI issues are fixed.  I have several computers and laptops, but the Surface Pro 3 is my primary device for Bible study and research so if it's not working optimally it's not worth purchasing at this point in time.  I purchased the Surface Pro 3 specifically to use with Logos and it's been working great.  I was hoping Accordance would work as well, but the scaling issue is a deal breaker.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Smq0SQm.png

Edited by maverick777
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Thank you, very helpful.

 

I was initially thinking of the i5, 128gb but that only has 4gb ram. I wonder if 4 is too limiting.

 

With Logos and Accordance installed how much space do you have free? Do you have other apps that eat a lot of space or really need the 8gb ram to perform adequately?

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Thank you, very helpful.

 

I was initially thinking of the i5, 128gb but that only has 4gb ram. I wonder if 4 is too limiting.

 

With Logos and Accordance installed how much space do you have free? Do you have other apps that eat a lot of space or really need the 8gb ram to perform adequately?

 

From a hard drive perspective, I have 145gb free of the 237gb.  Out of the box it had 211gb free of the 237gb.  So what makes up the 50gb or so that I've used?  

  • 20gb - Logos
  • 8gb - Steam/video games
  • 5gb - Learn Logos videos
  • 350mb - Accordance Demo

This accounts for the majority of my used space.  I have a smattering of other smaller programs that make up the rest.  So from a drive space perspective I think 128gb would be sufficient.  I have a 128gb MicroSD card installed as well which I use for general storage.  128gb was probably overkill, but it's always better to have too much than not enough.

 

As far as ram is concerned, 4gb may be limiting depending on how much multitasking you do.  Accordance is obviously much more memory efficient than Logos, so I don't think 4gb would pose too much of a problem.  However, if you like to use both programs and have a web browser going, PDF's, office documents, etc you may run into the limit.

 

With Logos, Accordance, Spotify, PDF reader, Excel, and Firefox with 5 open tabs (The Verge, Engadget, Arstechnica, ESPN, Anantech) my system is using 4.5gb of ram.  Closing Logos reduces that to 3.8gb.  This is a typical amount of programs I have running on my Surface.

 

So my recommendation is to go with the i5, 8gb, 256gb configuration when possible.  If price is a concern the i5, 4gb, 128gb version will still do the job, but may run into ram issues if you have lots of things open.

 

I hope that's helpful.

Edited by maverick777
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Thank you. I've decided to go with the 8gb RAM configuration thanks to your suggestions and information.

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Accordance 11 works well with one exception.  Some of the UI elements in the workspace don't scale correctly so they end up very small.  Pop up menus and such scale correctly though.  Here's a screen shot to illustrate the issue.

 

Maverick,

 

The UI actually looks fine to me. The icons and menu font sizes look very, very close to what I am seeing on my 17" MacBookPro. I have noticed that I can increase their size relative to the text if I use a smaller (external) monitor. In fact, I used to change my screen resolution deliberately when I recorded, so the UI would be more legible for those watching our podcasts on a mobile device. In "real life," I prefer to see as much text and as little interface as possible, just as you are showing.

 

I don't know if the Surface offers different screen resolutions, but if it does you can try a couple of different ones until you find one you like.

 

I'm not surprised you have found Accordance "snappy," a lot of our customers really like its speed. The program is generally requires a very modest amount of RAM, too. As to storage, if you owned and installed every module Accordance publishes on your Surface, it would take less than 20 GB. IF you eliminate the "image rich" modules, you can squeeze it down to less than 2 GB.

 

I don't own a Surface myself, but I am really tempted. Meanwhile, I hope this information will help others make purchasing decisions.

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I have the Surface Pro i7,   8 gb ram, with256 hard drive. (Hope I am saying it right.) My Accordance works great.

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Thanks all.  I've ordered the i5, 256 gb, 8 gb ram version.  Will be here Tuesday.  Hopefully by Tuesday night I'll have Accordance installed.

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Rick and I chatted about this over Facebook, so I got some solid feedback from him, but I'll ask a few more questions here. For those of you who are using Accordance (or Logos as well) on the Surface Pro 3:

 

1. How is reading books on the Surface Pro 3, especially compared to an iPad (such as an iPad Air 2)? Is reading books comfortable on the Surface Pro 3, or is the iPad still king for reading books?

 

2. How is the Surface Pro 3 as a general "tablet/notebook" replacement? is it lightweight enough to be a decent tablet replacement, and powerful enough to be a general notebook replacement?

 

3. How is the typing cover for the Surface Pro 3?

 

4. Could the Surface Pro 3 be a decent "desktop" replacement if I were to plug one into say, a 27" display that's on my desk?

 

5. Compared to a notebook with a traditional hard drive (such as a non-retina MacBook Pro), how much faster is Accordance (as well as Logos for those who have it), and any other programs you use compared to a traditional notebook?

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Rick and I chatted about this over Facebook, so I got some solid feedback from him, but I'll ask a few more questions here. For those of you who are using Accordance (or Logos as well) on the Surface Pro 3:

 

1. How is reading books on the Surface Pro 3, especially compared to an iPad (such as an iPad Air 2)? Is reading books comfortable on the Surface Pro 3, or is the iPad still king for reading books?

 

2. How is the Surface Pro 3 as a general "tablet/notebook" replacement? is it lightweight enough to be a decent tablet replacement, and powerful enough to be a general notebook replacement?

 

3. How is the typing cover for the Surface Pro 3?

 

4. Could the Surface Pro 3 be a decent "desktop" replacement if I were to plug one into say, a 27" display that's on my desk?

 

5. Compared to a notebook with a traditional hard drive (such as a non-retina MacBook Pro), how much faster is Accordance (as well as Logos for those who have it), and any other programs you use compared to a traditional notebook?

 

1.  Reading is very good, but since it's not as light weight as my Kindle HDX, I don't use it for bedtime reading.  For all other times, it works very well.

 

2.  As a laptop replacement it works extremely well.  It's replaced my desktop replacement workstation.  It replaces my tablets 90% of the time.  The one exception I stated above.

 

3.  The type cover works very well.  No, it's not as good as my ThinkPad keyboard, but I can type 80-90% as fast on it and it keeps the total package slim and portable.  

 

4.  Yes, you can use it as a desktop replacement.  I don't simply because I have a very powerful desktop system.

 

5.   Accordance is fast no matter what.  Less than 5 seconds to start on the Surface Pro 3.   Logo 6 loads in 15 seconds on the Surface Pro 3 with not updates.  With updates it can take 35 seconds to load.  I've timed all these start up times myself with a stopwatch.  My Logos library has about 2,000 resources and takes up 20gb of space as a point of reference.  I don't have Logos 6 installed on any system with a regular hard drive, so I can't give you any comparisons with traditional systems.

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I'll find out soon enough, but how is the 12" screen for tablet use.  It seems that it could be a little large at least compared to my iPad Air. But I didn't buy for primarily tablet use in the same way I use my iPad. As nice as the iPad is, it can't replace a computer for typing comfort.  I'm also interested in the pen. A man at my church as a Pro and uses it a lot for notes at church and Bible study. Seems to write pretty quickly too.

 

As I said, I'll find out soon....

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1.  Reading is very good, but since it's not as light weight as my Kindle HDX, I don't use it for bedtime reading.  For all other times, it works very well.

 

2.  As a laptop replacement it works extremely well.  It's replaced my desktop replacement workstation.  It replaces my tablets 90% of the time.  The one exception I stated above.

 

3.  The type cover works very well.  No, it's not as good as my ThinkPad keyboard, but I can type 80-90% as fast on it and it keeps the total package slim and portable.  

 

4.  Yes, you can use it as a desktop replacement.  I don't simply because I have a very powerful desktop system.

 

5.   Accordance is fast no matter what.  Less than 5 seconds to start on the Surface Pro 3.   Logo 6 loads in 15 seconds on the Surface Pro 3 with not updates.  With updates it can take 35 seconds to load.  I've timed all these start up times myself with a stopwatch.  My Logos library has about 2,000 resources and takes up 20gb of space as a point of reference.  I don't have Logos 6 installed on any system with a regular hard drive, so I can't give you any comparisons with traditional systems.

 

Good info. It's having me consider a Surface Pro a little more. :-)

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And if you want something more compact, the new Surface (not Pro) 3 coming out in May should run Accordance quite well, too. It would definitely a better tablet for simple reading than a full blown Surface Pro 3.

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And if you want something more compact, the new Surface (not Pro) 3 coming out in May should run Accordance quite well, too. It would definitely a better tablet for simple reading than a full blown Surface Pro 3.

 

True. I also already own an iPad Air 2, and I don't see me 100% parting with it even if I got a Surface. So when I need something super light for reading, I could still turn to my iPad Air 2. The Atom based surface, even though generally powerful enough for stuff like Accordance, would still probably be too weak for a general computer for me. I'd probably still overload it and almost crash it since I'm used to running i5's and i7's in my day to day work. I'm considering a retina MacBook Pro and Mac Pro eventually, but with Apple's latest track record with Yosemite, I'm leery to sink that much cash in Mac upgrades right now until OS X becomes more stable. I'm not a huge Windows fan either, but Windows 10 does look decently promising, and bare minimum, I could use the Surface as a school machine or backup PC if my Macs give me trouble, plus since my company uses Office 365 and I'm about to do a major Office 365 deployment at a college here, the Surface Pro may be a good machine to use to manage some of the stuff I'll be doing with Office 365.

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Nathan, as you and I have discussed elsewhere, I believe that Yosemite is fine at this point. 10.10.3 released yesterday is quite stable. On the other hand, I predict that Windows 10 will be rough around the edges for at least a year. I agree that it does look promising, but we haven't yet seen much in the way of how well it will work on tablets, including the Surface, because tablet features are probably the furthest behind in development for new features of Windows 10 so far. Hopefully, we'll have a better idea soon.

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Thought I'd go ahead and officially reply here, although Rick and I have been chatting elsewhere, so he knows basically what I'm going to say. :-)

 

I agree with Rick that Yosemite has ironed out some of major kinks in 10.10.3 (there's still a few left, but it's getting better). I talked with Mark Allison in the webinar yesterday, and he's seen the same thing. I also agree that Windows 10 will be rough out of the box. Additionally, as I told Rick personally, I've had a chance to see a Surface Pro in person since originally posting this. As a Mac user, I found the Surface Pro a little "clunky". It's heavier than my iPad Air 2 for reading, as well as a little cramped for being a full-scale notebook/desktop replacement. It's more elite than some plasticky Windows hardware I've seen, but still too much of an adjustment for me as a full time Mac/iPad user. Plus, since I'm so used to OS X, Windows just seems foreign to me to use on a day to day basis. It would be difficult to adjust.

 

I talked with one of my IT guys at WeatherBug, and we've come to a conclusion that the reason I'm experiencing such a major array of issues with my Macs is twofold: 1. When beta testing Yosemite, some gunk has remained I need to get rid of and 2. While I'm at it, I need to loosen up on third party apps and gunk and move more to using Apple's built in apps when possible, and only install third party apps I really use (like Accordance). So when I get done with classes in a couple weeks, I'm going to go ahead and erase and install OS X (after a solid backup of course) then use as much of Apple's built in apps for day to day stuff, and only install the third party stuff I really need. Doing so will clean out the beta gunk, as well as give me a chance to do some serious housekeeping, and OS X should run pretty decently on my machines for a while. 

 

Since my machines are getting older, after I perform the erase and install, if performance still seems a little sluggish, I can slowly look into some new hardware, maybe later this year. Nothing right away, as the erase and install will give me a lot more time to still have decently running machines, then I can slowly move over to newer hardware when I feel the time is right. 

 

The Surface Pro is a very decent PC if you're wanting a high-end PC. However, Rick knows I'm a Mac user at heart, and thanks to his advice that I will seriously take, for me, I find it'd be better to buy a little more time with my current Macs, then start saving the extra money to invest in new Mac hardware. It'd only be a little more for a new MacBook Pro over a Surface Pro, and I'd be getting something I'm more familiar with, something with more power, and what really suits me better as a Mac user. I'm just thankful for the advice of someone who knows what machine I really need even more than I did. 

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And nathan, if you wait long enough, who knows apple may bring out an ipad pro with full os. I really like a tablet and would love something with a full os.

 

;o)

 

Though mac rumours still indicates its an ios device.

;o(

Edited by ukfraser
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Has anyone tried something like this as a touchscreen compromise?

 

HP ENVY x360 15-u205na Convertible

 

Thanks

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Has anyone tried something like this as a touchscreen compromise?

 

HP ENVY x360 15-u205na Convertible

 

With an i5 processor and 8 GB of RAM, Accordance will fly on that device. However, I still recommend tablets with an active stylus for Accordance use (or a mouse if you want to carry one with you). Otherwise, you won't be able to take advantage of crossover highlighting, and the buttons for collapsing and magnifying a zone will not appear.

 

I know that HP makes a stylus that works with some of their tablets, but I don't know if this one will work with it or not.

 

 

On a related note, I have a Surface 3 on order. It should be a very good low-end choice for Accordance. I'll put it through the paces with Accordance when I get it next month and report back.

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  • 7 months later...

Am wondering if any changes has been made, or are planned to be made with regard to this? Not necessarily specific to Surface Pro 3, but all Windows machines with "high DPI" screens.

 

Tried the demo, while the main text can be enlarged simply by using CTRL + "+", some of the custom controls are obviously not drawn to scale and too small, presumably they're designed with a fixed DPI in mind?

 

Otherwise, my first impression of Accordance is pretty good, launches quickly, clean interface and responsive controls.

 

Cheers.

 

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