Typing Hebrew on Windows - what mapping to use ?

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi All,

 

  Not exactly an Accordance question but the mapping needs to work with Acc.

 

  I'm beginning finally to type Hebrew - working on my languages crib for Hebrew.

  I am using the Tyndale House mapping right now. I of course have the Israeli installed that comes with Windows but that's modern.

 

  So suggestions of keyboard mappings that would work on Win 7 and beyond would be way cool.

  I will probably check out the Ezra SIL keyboard.

 

  Any others ? Ideally I would like to settle on one keyboard. BTW, if the same mapping has OSX and Win implementations that would be a serious plus. I would like to learn one only if I could.

 

  Oh and if you know a decent Ancient Hebrew typing tutor to match ...

 

Many thanx

D

Edited September 7, 2015 by Daniel Semler

[A.D. Riddle]

I don't know this for sure, but I would guess that the Hebrew keyboards at SBL (Windows and Mac) have similar layouts.

http://www.sbl-site.org/educational/BiblicalFonts_SBLHebrew.aspx

 

A.D.

Edited September 7, 2015 by A.D. Riddle

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Daniel,

 

The Ezra SIL keyboard meets all your requirements.

 

First, it is available in Windows and OSX. In OSX it is the Biblical Hebrew - SIL keyboard you can download from http://www.sbl-site.org/educational/BiblicalFonts_SBLHebrew.aspx . Download the SBL Hebrew keyboard Drivers, SIL and Tiro (OS X). There are even posts about how to get it in Linux, and I know you might be interested in that too.

 

Second, it is available system wide in Windows and OSX. The only program it doesn't work in in my experience is BW in OSX 10.6.8.

 

Third, I think it’s the best mnemonic Hebrew keyboard solution. It uses < > for א ע , which by itself is a better solution than a for א and i or o for ע , which is misleading. This frees up better correspondences than in other keyboards, especially for the vowels. It uses aeiou for the short vowels, and their shift keys for some appropriate long vowels. And, it uses w or ו . Altogether, it is easier to type consonants and vowels, and you don't have to reach the number keys for some arbitrary vowel correspondences.

 

Fourth, it is the standard non-proprietary Hebrew keyboard in the Windows world. I'm not sure that many OT/HB scholars use Acc yet. But many who use BW or Logos use the Ezra SIL kbd. Many of them also use it with one of the best things to come out of Australia, Tavultesoft's Keyman Desktop. With Keyman Desktop you can associate the Ezra SIL keyboard with the Hebrew language (or any keyboard with any language, e.g., the Galatia SIL keyboard with Greek). So, when you choose the Hebrew Language from the Language bar, you'll get the Ezra SIL keyboard automatically. So many people use this, that when I pointed out to BW that backspace delete didn't work in BW10 with the Ezra SIL keyboard in Keyman, they fixed it overnight (literally) and made the patch available the next morning.

 

So, in Windows and OSX, in all my programs except one, I use one Hebrew keyboard, and have done so for the last fifteen years, except for a short stint when it didn't work in Acc menus and text boxes. But I asked and they rectified that also. Kudos to them.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[Daniel R]

I recommend the SBL stuff as a free source, but if you want the best, go purchase the LaserHebrew package (fonts and keyboards to choose from) from Linguist's Software (https://linguistsoftware.com/lhebu.htm).

 

It is the most beautiful Hebrew font I know of and its English-HebrewLS keyboard is super easy to learn. It works great with Mellel and Word. If you are a student, they will give you a 10% discount.

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Daniel R and Daniel,

 

I'm well aware of Linguist's Software products - I started with Multi-Lingual Scholar, bought my first BHS from them, used their keyboard, and still have and occasionally use their non-Unicode Laser Hebrew fonts.

I would agree that a Laser Hebrew font is slighter better than Ezra SIL, and of course the best font package, but I wonder Daniel, even if you can tell the difference between them, does it matter at this point in your Hebrew to justify the cost of buying separate Windows and Mac versions (or even one version)? Here is Exod 20:4 in Laser Hebrew from their website, and 20:4 from Ezra SIL that I pasted in Word:

 

 

 

I decided to part with the Laser Fonts because Ezra SIL was adequate for my needs, and I thought the Ezra SIL keyboard was easier, especially for first year Hebrew students. The LS keyboard is typical of most mnemonic Hebrew kbds that relegate vowels to the top number row. I still think students have more trouble entering the vowels than consonants, so I chose the Ezra kbd. And, the LS kbd wasn't/still isn't available in Keyman.

 

Also Daniel, I know you've talked about Linux, and it is hard enough getting the Ezra kbd in Linux; I wouldn't even know how to start getting the LS one in Linux if you chose that route.

 

On the other hand, I will buy a Unicode Laser Hebrew package when I publish.  

 

Anyways, these are just suggestions or things to consider.

 

Regards to both,

 

Michel

[Daniel R]

I got mine along with Greek and Amharic fonts and keyboards (plus Mellel files of BHS and GNT in corresponding fonts) in order to prepare docs for publishing. Since I've been using them regularly for a decade now, the cost really doesn't seem like a big deal at all. 

 

By the way, the GNT NA27 was made with linguist's software Greek unicode fonts. Check 'em out. 

 

Call me spoiled, but I really don't mind paying a little extra one time to be able to use these beautiful unicode characters for the rest of my life. I don't think anything else out there holds a candle to their NewJerusalemU font. In my research projects, I set up tables that will have Hebrew in them and use this as the default font. I type in a reference, key-stroke in Joe Weaks' service script, and voila, Accordance exports the BHS reference to my doc in the best-looking unicode font ever.

 

I agree Michel, this isn't worth the money for first year students.

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Daniel,

 

Of course, you can chose any combination of keyboard and font. You should also remember that all manuscripts differ in varying degree from the perfection of Laser Hebrew and Ezra SIL fonts. And, the vowels and accents were added much later.

 

I should also clarify that you can associate any Keyman keyboard with a Windows language - Ezra SIL is included, LS isn't. But, you could buy Keyman Developer and make your own keyboards for any language.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[Peter Brylov Christensen]

Hi Daniel,

 

Of course, you can chose any combination of keyboard and font. You should also remember that all manuscripts differ in varying degree from the perfection of Laser Hebrew and Ezra SIL fonts. And, the vowels and accents were added much later.

 

I should also clarify that you can associate any Keyman keyboard with a Windows language - Ezra SIL is included, LS isn't. But, you could buy Keyman Developer and make your own keyboards for any language.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

Windows also made a tool for these things that's free of charge. It's called the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator. But I personally find it a lot less intuitive than the excellent albeit Mac-exclusive Ukelele app. 

 

And although I have no experience with it myself, I suppose that since Keyman Developer costs money to use, it's hopefully a lot easier to work with.

 

With kind regards

 

Peter Christensen

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi ya,

 

  Where to begin - er ... thanks !

 

  The LaserHebrew does indeed seem to be going a little far given where I'm at. But the combination vowels is interesting. I was playing with Cardo (more or less my default ancient lang. font) and found that in LibreOffice it does not handle this well for a particular case I was typing. Neither does Ezra SIL or SBL Hebrew. Ezra SIL is better than most but the double vowels points are set to the left running into the vowels on the next letter over. Not cool. Cardo and SBL place the two vowels on top of each other - ooops. The rather unpleasant, for Hebrew at least, Liberation Sans and Arial Unicode MS render the vowels very nicely of course ! Oh well. A bug for LO to deal with. In the meantime c & p is your friend I guess.

 

 

  On a more positive note I've installed the SIL keyboard on both machines and will now play with it. Thanx for that.

 

  Regarding keyboard mapping tools, I have used the Microsoft freebie. I rebuilt a Semitic transliteration keyboard with it for Win 7. But the problem isn't so much the tool as the keyboard layout and so on. So better for me to get used to a mapping people who really do know the language have built. I would very likely learn a lot but it would be something of an obstacle to my current task. Perhaps another time. By the way the MS tool has not been updated to handle more evolved file paths (mainly with spaces in the directory names) and as a consequence you get some very odd failures on Win 7 and no doubt above. Easy to remedy but obscure.

 

  Many thanx to you all for the help and ideas.

 

Thx

D

 

[A.D. Riddle]

The SBL font looks good in Mellel.

 

A.D.

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Daniel,

 

Can I ask if you used Alt-Shift "a" for ḥăṭĕf-pắtăḥ , i.e., > followed by Alt-Shift "a" for אֲ ? Alt-Shift works for all the ḥăṭĕf vowels - a, e, and o in LO in OSX, so I would suspect that they will work in LO Windows. Btw, I just found a bug in Word 365. Alt-Shift "o" doesn't work. But since a; e; and o; work, I never use it.

 

Also, I assume you've checked the Language Settings > Languages > Complex text layout > Hebrew?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

[edited Btw ff line]

Edited September 8, 2015 by Michel Gilbert

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Ok, so that would be a no

I did notice that the SIL keyboard mapping contained strokes for composite vowels but I was working on the principle of the multi-vowels cases just being handled by proper processing of successive keystrokes. I just tried this on Mac quickly and I see the difference now. And Opt-Shift-A renders correctly whereas semi-colon followed by 'a' does not.

 

I will try windows tonight.

 

Thank you for this.

 

Bug in the headware it would seem - often is

 

Thx again

D

[Michel Gilbert]

Bug in the headware it would seem - often is

 

I will try windows tonight.

 

Thx again

 

Hey Daniel,

 

I suffer from that too. I originally said o; was the bug and had to edit my post. And, I know some read it, so I led them astray. I hope they check in again later.

 

Tell us if ֲ   renders correctly in LO Windows, and if it shares the Alt-Shift 'o' bug.

 

You also asked about an ancient Hebrew typing tutor. The Ezra SIL keyboard is your first tutor; it helps you learn the vowels, half-vowels, and their classes.

 

If you have any questions about the keyboard or fonts, just ask. It's an honor to help.

 

Regards,

 

Michel 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Michel Gilbert

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi Michel,

 

  Windows results:

 

  All three hataf combinations work as documented. The key combination is AltGr-shift-a,e,o, that is the right Alt key. The left Alt does not do it. This works in all the fonts I had problems with earlier, Ezra SIL, SBL Hebrew and Cardo. So way cool - many thanx for the help on that. I would prefer non-shift state via the multiple keystrokes but I can work with this.

 

  Curiously on the CTL front it was set to Hindi - yeah don't ask - I don't know. I did do an update to the latest version the other night but I don't know that did it.

 

  Anyhow fixed it but that made no difference to behaviour of a;. Oddly they composite with different results depending on the order in which you hit the keys. a; gives patah on right, shva on the left, both clearly visible. ;a overlaps them in the middle. All very odd. The keyboard mapping must be producing different Unicode which is not updated with subsequent keystrokes. Somehow some fonts are ok with that. Oh well.

 

Thx

D

[Λύχνις Δαν]

BTW, ever seen this : https://www.jewishsoftware.com/products/USB_Hebrew_Yiddish_English_Nikud_Keyboard_2240.asp#i

No I haven't ordered one. I would need to be keen and know that the nikud was all good. But interesting that it's a available.

 

Thx

D

[A.D. Riddle]

Linguist's Software makes nice fonts, but they are restrictive. I bought one about 10 years ago, and wish I hadn't. Two examples:

(1)   If you want to imbed one of their fonts in a pdf, you have to pay $50 per font per year for an embedding license.

(2)   You cannot use the font on more than one computer without paying for additional licenses.

 

For the year 2015, these restrictions seem a little outdated. For most things, including Hebrew, there are good options but without all the restrictions you get with Linguist's Software.

 

 

The free Ukelele app allows you to modify an existing keyboard layout, or create a new one from scratch. Maybe if there is an ideal Windows keyboard, you could create a matching Mac keyboard.

http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele

 

Mac's built-in Hebrew QWERTY keyboard works fine for me, and I have had absolutely no troubles with accents or vowels using SBL's Hebrew font in Mellel.

 

Do you use the Keyboard Viewer at all?

 

A.D.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hard to justify granted but I will say a beautiful font is a work of art.

 

As to the keyboard viewers I use them on both Mac and Win. They can help a lot - having two screens on the PC (and a large one on the Mac) also helps keep the screen clear of the obstruction.

 

Thx

D

[Joe Weaks]

Daniel, thanks for the phrase 'headware bug'. Love it.

 

I've long thought the best keyboard mapping option is the standard one for that language, what Michel referred to as the "standard non-proprietary Hebrew keyboard in the Windows world". If you're gonna learn a new mapping, you really have no reason to 'care' which one it is. And, there's LOTS of secondary benefits of choosing the most common, standard mapping, such as easy access to a physical keyboard with it.

 

Regarding fonts, I'm not a typeface guy, so have always just gone with whatever font was easily accessible. There are plenty. But, I will say, Linguist's model really does seem the relic of a day gone by.... like cell phone plans that used to charge by the text message. When I walk past their booth at SBL, I think "Man, you're still getting juice out of that turnip?"

[Daniel R]

Regarding AD's second point, I've never experienced this. I have moved my Linguist's Software fonts and keyboards to multiple machines and have never paid (nor have I been informed that I am supposed to pay) for a license per machine. When I upgrade to new machines, my fonts and keyboards go with them.

[A.D. Riddle]

When I say "cannot use," what I mean is, "you are not supposed to use." I think is possible to install multiple copies of the font on different computers, but the user agreement states this:

Individuals who need to have access to a Linguist's Software (LS) product on more than one computer at a time need to purchase separate units, a Personal Use License (PUL), or a site license. Individuals may purchase a PUL for one LS product for their personal use only on one additional computer for $25, and additional computers at $15 each. Separate LS product Personal Use Licenses ordered at the same time are $15 each.

 

https://www.linguistsoftware.com/faq-gen.htm#G32

 

This restriction regards using the font on multiple machines at the same time. When you upgrade machines and move your fonts over, I do not imagine that this would be a violation of the agreement.

 

A.D.

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Daniel,

 

The Ezra SIL keyboard meets all your requirements . . . There are even posts about how to get it in Linux, and I know you might be interested in that too.

 

 

Hi Daniel,

 

You can install a keyboard in Linux that is “[very] similar to the [Ezra] SIL Biblical Hebrew keyboard.” If you want it to be exactly the same, “edit the he-kbd.mim file [/usr/share/m17n/he-kbd.mim]—you need to edit the file yourself particularly if you want the full range of Hebrew accents to be available.”

 

Follow the instructions at http://berithroad.blogspot.ca/2011/01/sbl-hebrew-keyboard-for-linux.html .

 

Regards,

 

Michel