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Set Hebrew to display as unpointed text


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#41 Abram K-J

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 01:43 PM

Thanks, Michel! Can't wait to see this up and start using it.


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#42 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 09:38 PM

Just pulled this from the exchange - very nice. I'll have to play with fonts yet - but it runs very nicely in parallel with HMT-W4 and it came straight up on Windows. Very nice !

 

Many thanx Michel.

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

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#43 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 12:03 AM

Hi Daniel,

 

It was my pleasure.

 

It was a good day for Hebrew: the Unpointed HB works well (thanks Ken), Acc 11.1.1 came out and the Syntax Module was improved in it, and the books Dr. Holmstedt submitted yesterday (see  http://www.accordanc...ess/#entry83336 ) are in Content Updates today.

 

Can it get any better? I might not get any sleep tonight.  :)

 

Regards,

 

Michel


Edited by Michel Gilbert, 17 November 2015 - 12:26 AM.

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#44 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 10:59 PM

Hi,

 

Just to clarify, Unicode Paleo-Hebrew fonts display the same Paleo-Hebrew consonant for the medial/final form pairs, e.g., כ and ך both display as Attached File  כ.PNG   535bytes   0 downloads in the font Paleo-Hebrew Lachish. Since all the vowel letters may have been written in a late 6th BCE Bible (all final ones for sure, all medial ones perhaps), you can select a Paleo-Hebrew font like Lachish for an unpointed MT and display a close approximation of a late 6th BCE text.

 

You can't use this kind of unpointed HB for a close approximation of a 10th BCE text (for parts that may be that old). Most of the vowel letters would need to be taken out. When I posted my first and second attempts, I started with a HB with vowels and I used macros to take out vowel letters and everything else. Anyone who can read those Proto or Paleo posts can see that I had different results the second time. (Overall though, the second attempt was better for the entire HB). Since I have to do some research, and then check every line (of the relevant parts of the Bible), I can't promise that sort of text soon, if ever. Even if I did, I would use one Unicode value for כ/ך , one for מ/ם , etc., so one couldn't switch to a Unicode Aramaic square font, e.g., Ezra SIL or SBL Hebrew, and display the final forms.

 

Regarding the format, I couldn't figure out how to display the verses right to left, which I would have preferred. Display as paragraph also doesn't work in Acc - the lines don't wrap correctly. If anyone knows how to fix either of these, I'll send you the .txt file, you could fix it, and I'll re-post it.

 

Also, full disclosure, I didn't read the entire unpointed HB to check for errors before I posted it. Send me a PM if you find an error and I'll fix it and re-post it.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


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#45 Ken Simpson

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 01:02 AM

Always happy to help the unpointed-Hebrew-starved masses  :blink:


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#46 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 01:19 AM

Thanx for the details Michel - I was nearly going to ask last night.

 

Regarding RTL in a User Bible. The text it self is RTL (so it appears to me with your UHB in parallel with HMT-W4) but the line breaks don't then start the next line over at the right hand end, rather they are left justified. In addition the verse refs are also not on the right. I hit a similar issue and opened a forum topic on it during beta testing. The response was that it was a known limitation. Hopefully interest in RTL User Bibles might lead to an enhancement.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#47 EricC

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 02:18 AM

 Hopefully interest in RTL User Bibles might lead to an enhancement.

 

Thx

D

 

+1 Indeed! It would be wonderful if Accordance were to provide full support for RTL User Bibles.



#48 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 03:58 AM

If, you own a licence for the Samaritan Pentateuch 

then you have access to at least one text that is Ktiv hasar niqqud (unpointed = כתיב חסר ניקוד  or  כתיב מלא)

 

Attached File  unpointed text.png   485.16KB   0 downloads

 

there are also a few more:

http://www.accordanc...-in-accordance/


Edited by bkMitchell, 18 November 2015 - 04:00 AM.

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#49 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:19 AM

Thanx for the details Michel - I was nearly going to ask last night.

 

Regarding RTL in a User Bible. The text it self is RTL (so it appears to me with your UHB in parallel with HMT-W4) but the line breaks don't then start the next line over at the right hand end, rather they are left justified. In addition the verse refs are also not on the right. I hit a similar issue and opened a forum topic on it during beta testing. The response was that it was a known limitation. Hopefully interest in RTL User Bibles might lead to an enhancement.

 

Thx

D

 

Hi Daniel,

 

Yes, I meant I preferred the rtl text to be right justified, versification on the right side, and paragraphs - just like the tagged HB in Accordance.

 

Thanks for the information - that it is a current limitation. It seems though that Acc would be able to make this kind of User Bible!

 

In the interests of full disclosure, I'm still cutting wood all day, I'm exhausted at night, and a bit muddled in my thinking, so someone else has to clarify my clarifications.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

If, you own a licence for the Samaritan Pentateuch 

then you have access to at least one text that is Ktiv hasar niqqud (unpointed = כתיב חסר ניקוד  or  כתיב מלא)

 

attachicon.gifunpointed text.png

 

there are also a few more:

http://www.accordanc...-in-accordance/

 

Hi bk,

 

I agree that the unpointed SP would be a good place to start, and I especially like the right justification, versification, and paragraph style.

 

But I'm not sure how many of us would be willing to pay that much, even for the entire HB. I would pay a nominal fee for an untagged HB in the same format as Acc's tagged one, as long as I could change the font like in a User Bible.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


Edited by Michel Gilbert, 18 November 2015 - 11:07 AM.

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#50 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 04:38 AM

I agree that the unpointed SP would be a good place to start, and I especially like the right justification, versification, and paragraph style.

Yeah, I think it is very affordable and there is a chance some may have it already.

 

 

I would pay a nominal fee for an untagged HB in the same format as Acc's tagged one, as long as I could change the font like in a User Bible.

 

I am not sure but it is my guess that OakTree Accordance's current Hebrew Bible texts are probably complied, formatted, and maintained in something similar to the CCAT (ASCII) Beta Code with the Hebrew fonts being simply mapped over the ASCII characters. If, that is true this would make it difficult for their Hebrew texts to switch to different Unicode Hebrew font styles. And, would require conversion of some sort. 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

Currently running Accordance on:

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#51 Gordon

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 05:28 AM

I downloaded the unpointed Hebrew text module from the exchange.  Double clicked on the accordance icon, looked in my accordance program but the item does not show up in my accordance. 

Can anyone help?

 

 

windows 10

accordance 11.1.1


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#52 Ken Simpson

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 06:30 AM

HI Gordon, it should be at the bottom of your texts section. It will be called UHB∘ (that’s the superscripted degree symbol)

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2015-11-23 at 22.29.27 .png   168.08KB   0 downloads


Regards
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#53 Gordon

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 07:45 AM

Ken,

I looked at the bottom of the texts but it doesn't show up.  I even tried copying into the acc file where I have a couple of other items that I got from the exchange, but it still doesn't show up

 

windows 10

accordance 11.1.1


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#54 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 10:39 AM

it should be at the bottom of your texts section.

 

Hi Ken,

 

The bottom of the list? It's the text that started everything, the root from which sprung all the biblical texts and modules in Acc; there would be no Accordance without it. As such, it should enjoy pride of place at the top!  :)

 

 

I looked at the bottom of the texts but it doesn't show up.  I even tried copying into the acc file where I have a couple of other items that I got from the exchange, but it still doesn't show up

 

Hi Gordon,

 

When it first came up on the Exchange, I double-clicked on the .zip file and it displayed instantly. I think Acc was open in Windows when I did it, but it wasn't open on my Mac. It opened Acc on the Mac and displayed it instantly also.

 

Have you checked c:\Program Data\Accordance\Modules\Texts\ UHB.acc2   to see if it's there?

 

I have Win 8.1; Daniel said it worked with Win 7. Perhaps it's a Windows 10 thing?

 

Hope you can get it working.

 

Regards to both,

 

Michel


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#55 Fabian

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:26 PM

Does one of you guys read the manuals? ;)

 

There is one interesting sentence it the new Accordance Font paper, which came out with 11.1

 

In the second page

 

An Accordance Unicode font is in preparation  

 

It would not surprise me if Accordance 12 is full on unicode. And then many of the posts here are irrelevant. Then can we compare Accordance texts with the SBLGNT or so. That sound great. And all has the same font and so on...

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 23 November 2015 - 02:36 PM.

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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#56 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:43 PM

Hi Fabian,

 

But it doesn't mean they will allow us to show or hide the vowel points/accents. Like Helen said, "It's not a trivial programming task to allow them to be turned off in the display." Presumably, though, it will be easier to program in Unicode.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


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#57 Fabian

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:01 PM

Yes you are in my opinion correct. That's why I wrote "many". But maybe it will come as other Bible SW which are based on unicode has it.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#58 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:12 PM

Hi again,

 

Yes, I thought it meant an Acc Unicode font for all their texts, like in Logos.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


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#59 Gordon

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:22 PM

Hi Michel,

I just copied it into the folder that you suggested, but it still doesn't show up in the accordance program under text or anywhere else in the library when I open accordance

windows 10

accordance 11.1.1


Edited by Gordon, 23 November 2015 - 03:23 PM.

‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#60 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:31 PM

Hi Gordon,

 

Hopefully someone else can help you.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


 

It would not surprise me if Accordance 12 is full on unicode. 

 

I see you made a prophecy about WIVU. Did you have a prophetic vision about Acc's Unicode font? Maybe you saw 11.1.2 and not 12?  :)


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