Original Language Commentaries for students

[Aaron Smith]

I am currently taking a NT Greek class that is using the "inductive" language learning method. Each lesson there are 2-3 verses that have commentary explaining the grammar, morphology, syntax, etc, and then it works through translating the verses. I have found this very helpful in understanding Greek grammar. While I know there are many technical commentaries out there, my question is are they any that are geared more to students or beginners that I could use to help learn the language better?

[Abram K-J]

That's a great question, but I don't think anything like that really exists, at least not in Accordance. You could check out (in print) the Baylor Handbooks series on the Greek NT, but that's geared more toward folks with at least a year of grammar. Kregel publishes a walk-through guide to 1-3 John, which could be something along the lines of what you're after.

[Michael Miles]

This type of material would be a great blessing to a whole lot of people.  I'd be interested in Hebrew and LXX sources, since I'm generally in that end of the pool.

 

For the Greek, have you looked at the Greek diagrams?  http://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=GNT-T.diagram .  I realize it's not exactly what you may be looking for, but it might be helpful.  I'd like to have Hebrew diagrams for the Old Testament.  Why do the Greek guys get all the whiz-bang stuff?

 

[Λύχνις Δαν]

You might try : http://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=GNT%20Key

I've not used it but the blurb says "is ideal for students and for busy pastors whose knowledge of Greek grammar is limited or rusty but who want to read the Greek New Testament."

 

I recall posts about it so there is probably more info in the forums on it to get an idea on its level.

 

Thx

D

[John Fidel]

I agree that the Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the GNT would be a good choice as it goes beyond what Accordance provides in the Instant Details, but is not a complete technical commentary. Attached is a sample of Rom 8.28 showing how the resource addresses some of the textual issues with the verse. Good suggestion!

[Bret Hicks]

This is not in Accordance, but I think something close to what you are looking for is "A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament" by Zerwick.  It goes through each verse, pointing out grammatical features, and even points you to the appropriate section in Zerwick's grammar.  It can be found on Amazon (for sale by 3rd parties) at http://smile.amazon.com/Grammatical-Analysis-Greek-New-Testament/dp/8876535888/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1445956665&sr=8-4&keywords=zerwick+biblical+greek

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

In Christ,

 

 

Bret

[Fabian]

This is not in Accordance, but I think something close to what you are looking for is "A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament" by Zerwick.  It goes through each verse, pointing out grammatical features, and even points you to the appropriate section in Zerwick's grammar.  It can be found on Amazon (for sale by 3rd parties) at http://smile.amazon.com/Grammatical-Analysis-Greek-New-Testament/dp/8876535888/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1445956665&sr=8-4&keywords=zerwick+biblical+greek

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

In Christ,

 

 

Bret

 

This seems to be an equivalent of the http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/3765593907?*Version*=1&*entries*=0which another software from Germany has in it. This is also sell by the DBG/GBS 

 

But I would love to see it in Accordance.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

[Aaron Smith]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions guys.

[Daniel R]

asmit421,

 

Great question! But consider your question once more.

 

"are they [there] any that are geared more to students or beginners that I could use to help learn the language better?" (italics added)

 

The context of this question is the inductive grammar/translation approach as you encounter grammatical items and translation issues in the verses you're assigned. This way of doing Greek (and Hebrew) is criticized today by advocates of the communicative approach to biblical languages (the best among them is Dr. Randall Buth http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/ ).There's something to that. Practicing communicative situations with Greek will make your Greek vocab go very smoothly and you will remember it longer. 

 

But practically, the traditional grammar/translation approach equips the student with the knowledge of how to use the reference tools on their own for justifying sound exegetical readings of the text. Even if you speak Hebrew and Greek, you still need to know how to use the lexicographic and grammatical/syntactic reference material to motivate your reasons for reading an ancient text as you do. So consider getting very familiar with the standard Greek grammars and lexica, which are available in Accordance (except BDF which is lame). If you want to track verses, search for verses as you would cherry-pick an index. Eventually, you'll know where things are in the reference grammars, how to apply examples to verses which are not discussed in the grammars, and you'll be able to cite a reference for all your exegetical choices. One would have to do the same to argue with you.

 

All that to say, consider what you want. Do you want to "learn the language"? (If so, move to Greece.) Or do you want to read the Bible with good reasons for your readings? In both cases, practicing the intended end-use of a skill as the way to learn a skill is the best method to sustain the skill over your life. So what skill are you seeking to develop?

 

D

Edited October 27, 2015 by Daniel R

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi Daniel,

 

  Do you have a reference to Buth's criticism of the method ? (I would like to read it). I'm working through Buth's Hebrew classes (not alas in person, but recordings and notes) and I would have thought that his stuff would have landed toward the inductive end of the spectrum (that is working from examples back to grammar) rather than deductive (explaining morphological rules and syntax rules and the showing examples). That said I the emphasis in Buth is very much on learning naturally through speaking and communication - which doesn't of course work so well for home study but you do what you can. Perhaps I just don't understand how the terms inductive and deductive are applied to language teaching.

 

Thx

D

[Daniel R]

Hi Daniel (man, this might get confusing),

 

Dr. Buth has some materials on his Academia.edu site ( https://biblicallanguagecenter.academia.edu/RandallButh ),but I don't see anything there about communicative method in particular. For biblical Hebrew, Dr. Paul Overland and the Cohelet folks ( http://www.learningbiblicalhebrewinteractively.com/Home/About ) apply a similar method to biblical Hebrew. I've heard both of them give papers on this topic at SBL more than once. Perhaps you could email him and request a PDF.

 

I only used the inductive/deductive terminology because the OP did. I think those distinctions don't really lead anywhere pedagogically distinctive because at the end of the day, you're still learning something new that you don't currently know. So my point is to be specific about what that goal is. If your goal is to "know" a language, then I think you should immerse yourself in that language. But this is impossible with biblical Hebrew and Greek  because there are no speaker communities in which one could be immersed (the communicative folks would frame this differently). So I think its a good idea for a serious biblical Hebrew and/or Greek student to take some time to get introduced to modern Hebrew and Greek. This lets a student enjoy the benefits of a communicative method in real life, rather than learning a classroom-form approximation of an ancient language which does not exist outside that classroom (and the communicative folks don't like that characterization, but that's what I think the evidence shows). But for most of us who want to "know" Hebrew and Greek and spend money on tools like Accordance to help us do that, the skill we are looking for is being able to understand and exegete. A modern Greek speaker can read the GNT with no problem, but they can't account for the linguistic and theological debates are words like γαρ in Rom 1:18 or the issues of case semantics regarding Paul's use of genitives. So in this sense, "reading" the GNT is something that takes a lot of study even in familiar places where we "know" the vocab and the grammar "rules". 

 

By inductive in the OP, I think asmit421 means that his teacher is taking him through texts and dealing with phonological, morphological, basic syntactic, and translation issues as they come in each verse as opposed to a more traditional grammar/translation approach which presents sets of linguistic information (like the noun system, then the verb system as in Mounce) and uses cherry-picked phrases of verses as examples. That's cool. Its still basically a grammar/translation approach. But if someone wants to call it inductive and not deductive, I wouldn't press the issue. Call it what you wish. The distinction with Buth's material, however, is communicative vs. non-communicative. 

 

D

Edited October 27, 2015 by Daniel R

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi Daniel,

 

  Agreed on all that.

  Buth's stuff is great. I had already done Mounce by the time I found his Greek stuff, but still useful. As I said I'm using his Hebrew stuff and then will move on to more conventional stuff. The next plot is to do writing in Greek and later Hebrew. And there is http://www.ibiblio.organd the http://sxole.com/ forums when one gets brave.

  Thanx for the pointer to LBHI link - looks interesting too.

 

Thx

D

[Daniel R]

Daniel,

 

Consider also visiting a JCC or a synagogue to hear some spoken Hebrew, modern and/or biblical. You'll definitely make friends.

[Peter Brylov Christensen]

Daniel,

 

Consider also visiting a JCC or a synagogue to hear some spoken Hebrew, modern and/or biblical. You'll definitely make friends.

 

That's exactly what I did for 6 months straight when I was learning Biblical Hebrew. It really made a difference and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Sadly, I don't have much free time these days, but I still attend services on the rare occasion.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Pchris

[Douglas Fyfe]

For someone trying to get their head around the Greek you might also enjoy the NIGTC because where other commentaries only comment on what they think is interesting in the Greek text, NIGTC tends to comment on much more, and shows you various possible approaches - telling you what they believe to be the answer, but giving you enough information to disagree.

 

http://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=NIGTC

Edited October 28, 2015 by Douglas Fyfe