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Using different color for nikud/diacritics in a word processor


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#1 Elijah

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:06 AM

I want to write my own hebrew grammar summary and I wondered how others were able to produce PDF files that use a different color for the vocalization symbols:

 

Attached File  sample.png   2.65KB   1 downloads

 

Example is from this PDF (page 73): http://biblicalhebre...BHAnswerKey.pdf

 

Using my own keyboard layout that I created with kbedit I'm able to write for example א and then the nikud ְ  which results in אְ.

When I change the font color before writing the nikud it is still added in the old color (black).

 

Since the text in the PDF above is scalable it wasn't changed later in a image editing program.



#2 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:58 AM

Do, you mean like the following example?:

Attached File  True Colors.png   28.07KB   1 downloads

 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#3 Elijah

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 08:20 AM

yes exactly, I want to color certain vowel signs, to show what changes occur in conjugation patterns for example



#4 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 08:28 AM

There are a few ways you can do what I did above. Here are, but three:

 

(1) Use a dedicated Hebrew Word Processor like Davka Writer 7. In that program you can select the Nekudot (vowels) by themselves, the ta'amei ha-mikra (cantillation) by themselves, as well as the consonants by themselves with a simple click on a drop down menu. ( I used this method above it is easy)

 

(2) Use a typesetting program like MiKTeX or LaTeX (not so easy, but free and powerful!)

       (maybe indesign middle east version will do the trick.)

 

(3) Use HTML/CSS code

http://johndyer.name...nts-in-htmlcss/


Edited by bkMitchell, 18 November 2015 - 09:17 AM.

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חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#5 Elijah

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:39 AM

regarding (1): I downloaded the demo version and was able to change to color. In the demo version it is not possible to copy to the clipboard. Do you know if the color is also copied when pasting for example into MS word?

 

(2): I already tried it with LaTeX but gave up after a while. Unicode doesn't seem to be supported in the classic LateX installation. Even using XeLateX or LuaLateX I didn't get it to work. It seemed like a lot of work and I wonder if all those authers went through all the trouble. Did you get it to work? The downside to this is that everything would have to be done in LaTeX. Copying from PDF to Word didn't copy the colors when I tested it.

 

(3) I tried using firefox to display the samples on this page and copy a word with different colors into MS word. It didn't copy the colors.

 

Another (very time-consuming and error-prone) way is to use the inbuilt functionalityin word: you could use two textboxes and set disable the border and group them. In one box write the hebrew letter and in the other one the nikud. One could create a seperate word doc with the typical combinations...

 

I still wonder what the writers of Basics of Biblical Hebrew were using, because in this book they also used different colors.


Edited by Elijah, 18 November 2015 - 09:42 AM.


#6 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 02:08 PM

Hi Elijah,

 

There were rumors that Adobe InDesign could do it.

 

Regards,

 

Michel



#7 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:46 PM

Elijah,

 

According to the following link: http://blogs.technet...osoft-word.aspx

MS word may be able to go what you want:

 

 

 Office button à Word Options à Advanced à Show Document Content....

 

...Colored Diacritics: In Word you can change the color of diacritics by selecting the Use this color for diacritics option.

 

 

And (link)

Add color to diacritics. On the Advanced tab of the Word Options dialog box, you can apply color to diacritics. Diacritics are the small marks that accent a character in an alphabet. You can instruct Word 2010 to add color to the diacritical marks by selecting the diacritics check box and choosing the color you want to apply.

 

 

 

The above was new to me! I stopped (or rather never started) using MS word back in the late 90's because it did not handle RTL properly unless you got the israeli version of word and Japanese support wan't very good either! A lot has changed since then maybe I should give Word a try again? 

 

 

regarding (1): I downloaded the demo version and was able to change to color. In the demo version it is not possible to copy to the clipboard. Do you know if the color is also copied when pasting for example into MS word?

 No MS word can not retain the vowel colors from DavkaWriter 7. However, a full version of DW7 can export to PDF which does retain the colors.  

 

 

I still wonder what the writers of Basics of Biblical Hebrew were using, because in this book they also used different colors.

More, than likely the authors sent their finished annotated text to a typesetter who then changed the colors of the vowels for them since normal word processor simply can not do this when the first published the Basics of Biblical Hebrew. Or, maybe they cut and pasted their text into a typesetting program and made the changes themselves. 

 

 

There were rumors that Adobe InDesign could do it.

 

Yes, I think so and the following page mentions that this is possible for Arabaic:  https://helpx.adobe....bic-hebrew.html

 

 

 

(2): I already tried it with LaTeX but gave up after a while. Unicode doesn't seem to be supported in the classic LateX installation. Even using XeLateX or LuaLateX I didn't get it to work. It seemed like a lot of work and I wonder if all those authers went through all the trouble. Did you get it to work? The downside to this is that everything would have to be done in LaTeX. Copying from PDF to Word didn't copy the colors when I tested it.

Yes, for those of us who do not use typesetting programs regularly it is a lot of work, pain, and heartbreak!  But, if you have the program already set up then I think it might be faster, and it definitely is more professional as well as being much cheaper than buying indesign (the industry standard). 

 

 

 

 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#8 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:06 PM

Hi bk,

 

It does work in Word. Here is a sample:

 

Attached File  Colored diacritics.PNG   7.25KB   1 downloads

 

But, it is a toggle switch - either all the diacritics in word, or none. It would be most helpful in a teaching grammar to color just one or some of the diacritics. Notice also that dageshes are not colored!

 

I have a few questions about DavkaWriter. Can you color just one vowel point or accent in a word? Can it do this for Unicode fonts? And, if you paste it into a Unicode compliant word processor, does it stay the same?

 

Thanks, and regards,

 

Michel



#9 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 12:17 PM

Hi again,

 

I thought that if you could do it in InDesign, maybe you could do it in MS Publisher. I found out you can.

 

In Publisher, draw a Text Box [Edit: , insert a Table, etc.,] and before you type a Hebrew consonant in it, click Home > Font > Diacritic Color, and select a color.

 

Attached File  Home, Font, Diacritic Color.PNG   14.4KB   1 downloads

 

Next, change the system language to HE, choose a font, and type a consonant and diacritic. Your Font Color on the Toolbar will color the consonant, and Diacritic Color will color the diacritic.

 

Attached File  First consonant plus shewa.PNG   14.86KB   1 downloads

 

If you want the next consonant to not have a colored diacritic, go back into Home > Font > Diacritic Color and uncheck Diacritic Color. You can keep typing until you want to change the color of another diacritic.

 

Attached File  Word with one diacritic colored.PNG   12.35KB   1 downloads

 

So, you have to choose diacritic color before you type a consonant, turn it off if you don't want it.

 

Here is your example Elijah:

 

Attached File  נקטל.PNG   10.84KB   1 downloads

 

If you copy a word with colored diacritics into MS Word, the diacritic color disappears

 

Thanks for this question Elijah, and your input bk. It helped me track down where the feature was in Publisher.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


Edited by Michel Gilbert, 19 November 2015 - 01:14 PM.

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#10 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 01:02 PM

 Can you color just one vowel point or accent in a word? 

Since, a picture is worth a thousand words I will first answer with this one:

Attached File  DavkaWriter Colors.png   108.03KB   1 downloads

 

Basically the answer to the above question is yes you can.

 

Can it do this for Unicode fonts? 

 

 

You can import so called "Unicode Hebrew" into Davka writer and then apply coloring. However, Davka writer for the most part uses only truetype/Opentype fonts internally, they now have unicode complaint (or rather mapped) versions of their Hebrew fonts for exporting. 

 

 

 

 

 And, if you paste it into a Unicode compliant word processor, does it stay the same?

 

 

If, you mean coloring of vowels and accents the answer is no. 


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חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

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#11 theblackbluejay

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:36 PM

Does anyone know how Davka Writer 7 (Mac) integrates with Mellel?   I do most all of my academic writing in Mellel, and am not sure if I would pickup Davka Writer unless the two play nicely together.  

 

Or, is Davka Writer worth the $$ anyway?

 

Thanks, 

 

David


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#12 Michael Miles

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 09:06 PM

Does anyone know how Davka Writer 7 (Mac) integrates with Mellel?   I do most all of my academic writing in Mellel, and am not sure if I would pickup Davka Writer unless the two play nicely together.  

 

Or, is Davka Writer worth the $$ anyway?

 

Thanks, 

 

David

Don't have Davka Writer 7 (Mac), but it looks to be a Windows version wrapped  in a WINE emulation layer made by CodeWeavers.  I've used another Bible study software in a similar fashion with less than spectacular results.  Just an FYI.



#13 Michael Miles

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 09:19 PM

I wonder how Nota Bene works for this?

 

http://www.notabene....s/notabene.html



#14 Brian K. Mitchell

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 04:57 AM

Does anyone know how Davka Writer 7 (Mac) integrates with Mellel?  

 

I am not sure what you mean by integrate?

However, I am sure you could cut and past from one program into the next, as DavkaWriter does allow for one to export and import Hebrew Unicode text, but then again one can already write Hebrew in Mellel.

 

DavkaWriter can not import unicode fonts out side of Hebrew/English ones. So, if you wanted to import Greek, Syriac, and so on you would need truetype/opentype fonts. 

If, you have and love Mellel then I doubt you have any real need for DavkaWriter. Currently, I basically use DavkaWriter7 and LibreOffice as my main word processors. OpenOffice/LibreOffice are open Source, free, and great but they can also be a little buggy and they can't do what I want to do with Hebrew very well. 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

Currently running Accordance on:

Windows 10 (64bit)

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