Λύχνις Δαν Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Hi ya, Not really Accordance related I'm afraid but I know we have some Ugaritic enthusiasts. So if I may does anyone know a Ugaritic font that encodes codepoint 0x10385 UGARITIC LETTER HO that works on the Mac ? Specifically any points in the Unicode 8.0 Ugaritic Range: 10380–1039F. And no I'm not learning Ugaritic, I'm learning Unicode which has got to be far far worse Thx D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Gilbert Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Hi Daniel, Not sure if this will help: you might already know about all of these: the fonts at http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ugaritic.htm , and LaserUgaritic at https://www.linguistsoftware.com/lug.htm and http://www.languagesource.com/acatalog/Ugaritic_Fonts_Laser_Font_.html . Logos has Zebul Open, but it is only available in Logos, not system wide. Are you saying H is supported in a Windows font you tried but not in OSX? Regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Thanx Michel. I saw some of these poking about last night. Alphabetum looks interesting but I thought I saw a note on some search that it was Windows only so I did not pursue it. Looking at the web link though now that does not seem to be the case. I'll try it tonight. I have not tried Windows yet. I am developing a small Unicode tool to show me the mappings and encodings. Yes I know this wheel has already been invented, but there is nothing like doing it yourself for the education. I am planning to deploy the JAR to Windows when I'm done. It is Java so it should just move. After that Android if I can. This is all a tech/dev stack test and more Unicode education for me really. So at present I don't know what happens on Windows. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) Ok Michel, thanx for this. I've gone through a few and resolved some bugs in my code. Very cool. The two that seem nicest (well actually work and can be tried out w/o forking out cash) are the Alphabetum from http://guindo.pntic.mec.es/~jmag0042/alphabet.html and David Myriad Rosenbaum (http://davidmyriad.tripod.com/myriads.font.page.html). There are three at http://www.fontspace.com/category/ugarit. Only David Myriad's, as above, worked. The other two are either not Unicode or Windows or something. Both Alphabetum and David Myriad's cost. Before I'd fork out for Alphabetum (45 euro for a 3 computer license w/o restriction on use ($50)) I'll have to check it out with larger quantities of text and various languages. It carries a ton of ancient language glyphs - over 6000. The guy has done a ton of work. It very likely covers every font I would ever want - comes with 100 page manual. LaserUgartic is more expensive ($100 USD) though and there is no demo version like there is for Alphabetum. And it looks like it's only Ugaritic. Gotta do some Hebrew ! Edit: Alas Alphabetum has a rather fatal flaw - diacritic alignment is off - quite pronounced in Hebrew. Seems ok in Greek - maybe the Greek is using pre-composed mostly. It is noted in the documentation. So that's a bit of a problem ... well a deal breaker really I'm afraid as I think the Hebrew from exported from Accordance appears to be using combining characters. Thx again D Edited December 19, 2015 by Daniel Semler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblackbluejay Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hey guys, Would either of you (or anyone else) have any suggestions for someone who wants to learn Unicode from the absolute basics through an advanced level? As I get more and more into Semitics, writing papers, and conducting research, I am realizing that a good understanding of Unicode (how to type unicode characters, how to create my own fonts, etc) would be really helpful. I have several fonts that I have downloaded and use (in Mellel, mostly), but I have no idea how to modify them if there is a problem, how to create my own, or what the Unicode nomenclature means. For instance, I did not quite understand Daniel's original question: "So if I may does anyone know a Ugaritic font that encodes codepoint 0x10385 UGARITIC LETTER HO that works on the Mac? Specifically any points in the Unicode 8.0 Ugaritic Range: 10380–1039F." Thanks! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hey David, There is a great deal in Unicode to absorb and I have been teaching myself and yet have a long way to go for what I want. I am however approaching also from the point of view of a programmer. I am in the process of writing some bits of code to deal with Unicode things. I don't know how much you want to know. Let me try to explain my question giving some basics along the way and then some links I've found useful. Unicode defines a codepoint as a number which represents a character, part of a character (say a diacritic for example), or something else, like say mathematical characters. Each is assigned a unique number. That number is called a codepoint. Now for trivia's sake there are 1114112 of them. Of those 1.1 million only just over 120,000 are actually assigned to characters as of today, the vast majority (some 80000+) assigned to characters in the CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) space. The Unicode standard does not specify that the glyph (the actual drawn letters) of a particular codepoint should look like A for codepoint 65 for example. It could look like A or A or whatever the typographer thought looked good when they created the font. Thus Unicode fonts map codepoints to actual visual representation. Now Unicode does define what the codepoint represents, so in theory at least a typographer is not at liberty to simple make codepoint 65 render as % sign. Another thing. People talk about Unicode and about UTF-8 or UTF-16 but not always with adequate precision. Unicode defines all the codepoints, it defines handles of composition of characters and their diacritics, the code charts for various character ranges such as the one I asked about : Unicode 8.0 Ugaritic Range: 10380–1039F, and many other things. One of those other things is the encoding. And encoding is how the number (the codepoint) is represented in memory in a computer or in a file on disk or in a network packet in transit. There are three representations, UTF-8, UTF-16 and UTF-32. UTF is from an older terminology and means Unicode Transformation Format. The 8, 16, 32 refer to the number of binary digits (bits) used in the encoding form. 8 bits is one byte. Sorry if this is two detailed and you already know this. So strictly one may encode a codepoint in one 32 bit number, one or two 16 bit numbers or up to four 8 bit numbers. So bear in mind that Unicode and the specific encoding of a Unicode character are not the same thing. Now with that background here is what I was doing and what I was asking. In Unicode codepoint 0x10385 (hexadecimal representation - decimal is 66437) is defined as "UGARITIC LETTER HO". I was trying to determine what it actually looked like as the little utility I am playing with tries to render the character in the font you choose. It also tries to determine the UTF-8 and UTF-16 encodings. I wanted something in the particular numeric range that the Ho falls in because of the way the encoding works. So I wanted a font that could render the glyph so I could see it and test my tool. Links : http://r12a.github.io/scripts/tutorial/ this is a really good tutorial site and explains a lot of stuff. I haven't been through it all but I learned a ton going through a bunch of it. http://www.unicode.org/standard/tutorial-info.html this is the unicode.org site and it can be very technical. But it refers to many tutorials including Richard Ishida's above. http://www.unicode.org/ this is the top level of the Unicode org website. The first thing in the menu on the top left is the "New to Unicode" section which may be helpful for terminology. In addition you can get to the standard itself and the code charts. http://www.unicode.org/charts/ This is a direct link to the code charts in case you want to poke about. Hope this helps D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miles Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hi Daniel, There is a font that includes the Ugaritic range in Unicode that you made reference to that is listed in the GNU FreeFont sources by script. The author of the font is Mark Williamson and the name of the font is MPH Damase Font. It is currently installed on my MacBook Air and has worked fine thus far. It also covers other Unicode ranges: https://www.gnu.org/software/freefont/sources/ Here is the results of a Google search with various links that supposedly link to or refer to this font. Font sites appear to run on advertising funding, you think? https://www.google.com/search?as_q=MPH+Damase+Font&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights= The link to fontspace.com does result in an actual font download and the font works. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- BTW, FWIW I use Ultra Character Map to fiddle with fonts on the Macs. It's solid and worth the few bucks: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ultra-character-map/id520265986?mt=12 I hope that some of this is helpful to you, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Thanx for this Michael. I tried it out and it works nicely. But... all these fonts seem to have small bugs (or limitations) in places. MPH and Cardo both seem to render the HEBREW POINT HOLAM HASER FOR VAV (0x5ba) incorrectly, though differently from each other. MPH does not do the Hebrew presentation characters it seems. But yes the Ugaritc Ho looks good. Ultra Character Map looks good but it's restricted to Mac. I have a plot to add a character set dump to my tool soon anyway and that should work on anything that runs Java. Then I'll be better able to check out some of these anomalies - whether my code or the fonts or .... Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miles Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 You can get the Zebul Open font that Logos uses without installing Logos right from a handy link on the Logos web site: https://www.logos.com/shibboleth This is a Windows application that Logos uses internally and offers to the public. There are links to the fonts at the lower portion of the page. Here is a link directly to the Zebul Open font download: https://www.logos.com/media/shibboleth/ZebulOpen.ttf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miles Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Ok, here's another blind stab at this. The Code2001 Font available as a download from this page supports decent Ugaritic: http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/index.html The font archive direct link is here: http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/code2001.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miles Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Alphabetum Font looks like the Swiss Army knife of fonts. It would set you back lunch money and they have a demo to download: http://guindo.pntic.mec.es/~jmag0042/alphaeng.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yeah I tried Alphabetum but ran into issues with diacritic placement. See my comments above about. There are very serious alignment issues with the nikud. I couldn't work out how to resolve it. thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miles Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Another font that you may wish to look at is Aegean by George Durous, and you can download it from this page: http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/ Be aware that this server seems to be running on an Arduino based computer located on the dark side of Pluto and connected to the internet by means of an acoustic coupler attached to a 300 baud modem powered by a single AAAA battery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miles Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yeah I tried Alphabetum but ran into issues with diacritic placement. See my comments above about. There are very serious alignment issues with the nikud. I couldn't work out how to resolve it. thx D Here is one way to get around it: https://fontforge.github.io/en-US/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yep - looking at that for for another project I want to do. I think I might know what's going on with 5BA though - it appeared first as an assigned codepoint in Unicode 5.0. It's possible that fonts compliant with earlier versions may have abused the standard and used that slot for something they had no other codepoint available for. Of course you're supposed to use the private use area for that but oh well. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miles Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yep - looking at that for for another project I want to do. I think I might know what's going on with 5BA though - it appeared first as an assigned codepoint in Unicode 5.0. It's possible that fonts compliant with earlier versions may have abused the standard and used that slot for something they had no other codepoint available for. Of course you're supposed to use the private use area for that but oh well. Thx D I have a back burner font project as well that I may take up sooner rather than later. My Biblical Hebrew knowledge gap-filling project is going rather well, and after I get further down the road with that I need to work on a Hebrew font that will have some private use glyphs for things Massorah related. Specifically crowned letters and character anomalies. I'm not sure if I will use font forge though. The High Logic font editor for Windows looks to be the sweet spot in font editing as far as ease of use vs. cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Interesting. I am thinking of trying to create a flipped letter set for boustrophedon text but I have a bunch of coding to get out of the way first and some research to do. Not sure it's the way to solve this issue though but it is one way. FontForge could do it for sure but I have other questions to resolve first. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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