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Had the logos guys give me a demo


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#1 mythrenegade

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 07:49 AM

I found this interesting. I was at a conference and logos was a sponsor, and I figured it's always good to "look over the fence" a little bit at what the competition has, because my opinions of logos are all formed from when I was in seminary (11 years ago!) and my fellow students always were looking over my shoulder at accordance because they couldn't get the information out of logos. Not that it didn't have it, but they couldn't figure out how to get it.

 

The salesman was VERY dismissive of Accordance except for "original language research" which is fine, I expect that, but I told him I wanted to see the interface and see what had changed in the 11 years since I last played with it.

 

In short. it is WAY better than it used to be. No question. 

 

HOWEVER.

 

When I asked him to add a translation to a screen he was working in, it took him a long time, and then he made a comment "oh, i need to put a comma in this box here" and I thought "what member of my staff team is going to remember that?"

 

The product seemed SLOW. Lots of spinning wheels. When I asked about it, he said he hadn't restarted his computer in a long time. That may be so, but the performance was, to me, unacceptable. 

 

It seemed to bring up results in resources you don't own, encouraging you to buy them. I'm not sure if that's exactly what was happening, but I _REALLY_ didn't like this. 

 

Finally, the pricing was very, very expensive. I'll be honest, I have been one of the people who has been pretty critical of Accordance's pricing in the past, feeling that the "dump everything in" pricing of logos worked out cheaper, but when I looked at the resources included that I would like and the price points in play, it was significantly more than I have ever spent on accordance. For me I was looking at a $3000 package for what I consider essential. I could create the same thing in accordance for less than $1000.

 

And the starter edition of accordance is an amazing value. Logos starter is $300 and it goes up rapidly from there.

 

I know I sound like a shill at this point, but I'm really not. YES, I've used accordance since I first discovered it at MacWorld like 25 years ago, and yes I have purchased site licenses of accordance and trained my own staff on it, but I really was open to looking at another option if it was better. Based on my fifteen or so minutes with Logos, i can't imagine making the change. 

 

Accordance rocks.

 

Joel


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#2 Daniel Francis

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:49 AM

I like my Verbum.... but I love my Accordance. I have long felt it was a night and day comparison. I will admit there are a few nice features one can find in the Faithlife (FL) products, but mostly totally unneeded fluff. Accordance is fast to start up and fast to use. The other is so slow to start up as to make a tortoise hare comparison insulting to a tortoise. Both once running can work fairly good but in general Accordance usually wins hands down. FL has a huge library offering but in my opinion the best of what is out there is available already in Accordance, Accordance also offers several very high quality works that you will not find in FL. I will continue to use both but if I was told tomorrow I could only use one or the other, I would choose Accordance without doubt. 

 

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#3 jeremyduncan

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:30 PM

I have bought quite a few resources in Logos simply because they weren't available (at the time) in Accordance but I much prefer using the Accordance software. 


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#4 Alistair

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 01:52 PM

Accordance staff seem to have a clear "don't diss the others guys" policy which, from what I hear, does not appear to be reciprocated.


Edited by Alistair, 02 May 2016 - 01:52 PM.

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#5 mythrenegade

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:11 PM

Alistair,

 

I was kind of disappointed by that as well. The approach by Accordance Staff is the right one. Treat your competitors with respect and let their success spurn you on to greatness. But this thread should stay positive, I shared it because I was encouraged by my "peek over the fence" and I felt others might be as well. 

 

FWIW I told him "Accordance still has you beat on interface and responsiveness" :-)

 

Joel



#6 EricC

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:12 PM

There are things I still do in Logos and probably always will (because I know how in that platform and don't know how to or it's not available in Accordance). Also, I have some commentaries in Logos that will probably never be in Accordance (and that's fine with me). I'm glad Logos is available, and I'm glad I can make use of it.

 

However, the two main non-functional differences I see are the following. I'm not talking about what one program can do and the other can't or vice versa. These major non-functional differences are (1) the overall philosophy of the company [which I would describe as "earn a reasonable reward for your labor" {Accordance} vs. "maximize profits" {Logos}] and the (2) manner and corporate culture with which customers are served. Accordance's staff does very, very well. Thank you, Oak Tree / Accordance!


Edited by EricC, 02 May 2016 - 02:12 PM.

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#7 Rick Bennett

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:34 PM

There are things I still do in Logos and probably always will (because I know how in that platform and don't know how to or it's not available in Accordance). Also, I have some commentaries in Logos that will probably never be in Accordance (and that's fine with me). I'm glad Logos is available, and I'm glad I can make use of it.

 

You may want to post the research question and see if it is possible (or something like it). You never know if it is possible, or if it is a good idea might make it in a future update. 

 

Also, feel free to request the commentaries in this thread. We're pretty much at the point where all major commentaries are available, and we can work with almost every publisher out there. Some exceptions of course, and some niche resources might be more difficult to justify with our long list of resources in queue for acquisition and/or development.

 

Thanks for the feedback!


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#8 Alistair

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 02:41 PM

@Joel: You call yourself "Myth Renegade" but your avatar says "Marathon"—Wish I had spent as much time in Accordance as I did "studying" those two :)



#9 KevinPurcell

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 12:41 PM

Adding a bible or other book to a window in parallel or in a new tab is trivial and easy in Logos and works much like it does in Accordance. However, overall Accordance is MUCH faster than Logos to start up or open a new feature like opening the home page or the settings scene or documents list. Logos also takes a beefy computer to use it adequately while Accordance can run well on lower end systems.


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#10 kpang808

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 02:13 PM

Accordance FTW!! (For The Win)

Shalom! In Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808 

 

#11 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 04:16 PM

Thank you all for your enthusiasm and kind comments. You make our work worthwhile. And, yes, we have a company policy about not commenting on other Bible software programs. We try to put all our energy into making Accordance the best Bible software program we can.


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#12 bnelson

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 01:59 PM

I have both products but prefer Accordance for most applications and most especially for the User Bible and User Note features. I do like the Word Study on Logos, but I dislike the speed of operation including the time to startup the application. Both are good, but I now rarely use Logos except for books not available with Accordance and some Word Studies.



#13 Fabian

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 04:00 PM

I have both products but prefer Accordance for most applications and most especially for the User Bible […] features. 

 

If I see what you can do with the User Bibles and User Tools in L see https://wiki.logos.com/Personal_Books then I wish a lot or better all of them in Accordance. 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

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ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#14 mopac01

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:58 PM

You may want to post the research question and see if it is possible (or something like it). You never know if it is possible, or if it is a good idea might make it in a future update. 

 

Also, feel free to request the commentaries in this thread. We're pretty much at the point where all major commentaries are available, and we can work with almost every publisher out there. Some exceptions of course, and some niche resources might be more difficult to justify with our long list of resources in queue for acquisition and/or development.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm invested in Accordance because over a decade ago it was the best that would run on my Mac.  But as a Catholic, I find Accordance isn't really that interested in that market.  They have Catholic materials but only very basic ones.  Two of the most respected commentaries from a Catholic perspective that are relatively recent are the Ignatius and the Navarre.  Neither is available in Accordance and they are in Logos.  I'm seriously looking at getting Logos just for the Navarre OT and NT commentaries.



#15 Daniel Francis

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:47 PM

I'm invested in Accordance because over a decade ago it was the best that would run on my Mac.  But as a Catholic, I find Accordance isn't really that interested in that market.  They have Catholic materials but only very basic ones.  Two of the most respected commentaries from a Catholic perspective that are relatively recent are the Ignatius and the Navarre.  Neither is available in Accordance and they are in Logos.  I'm seriously looking at getting Logos just for the Navarre OT and NT commentaries.

 

I do not know what catholic items Accordance may have in the pipeline. They have for years offered the Navarra translation which is a spanish study Bible from the same institution. The catholic offerings over at FL in there Verbum department are more robust without doubt, and indeed the lack of original language support in the deuterocanonical books in Accordance is more than a little disappointing. That said Accordance offers several important Roman Catholic works and while I use the Navarre Bible occasionally (couple times week) I find it highly overrated (just my opinion). If  we compare two very small sections of the CCSS (which Accordance offers) and NB, I do not think one would feel hard done by with the CCSS other than it is NT only.

 
__________________________________________________
Blessing of the Children (10:13–16)
 
 
13 And people were bringing children to him that he might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.” 16 Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.
 
 
  OT: Gen 48:14–16; Ps 115:14–15
  NT: Mark 9:36–37; Acts 2:39; 1 Pet 2:2. // Matt 18:3; 19:13–15; Luke 18:15–17
  Catechism: becoming a child, 526, 2785; the gift of children, 2373–79; laying on hands, 699
  Lectionary: Common of Pastors; Infant Baptism; Christian Initiation Apart from the Easter Vigil
 
10:13 This pronouncement about children immediately follows one about marriage—not accidentally, since Mark is grouping together teachings on the implications of discipleship for ordinary life. People, probably both mothers and fathers, were bringing children to Jesus, not only for healing but simply that he might touch them. The blessing of children through the laying on of hands was an ancient Israelite practice, usually done by the child’s father (Gen 27:30; 48:14–16). Not surprisingly, parents wanted their children to be blessed by the renowned miracle-working rabbi from Nazareth. But those approaching Jesus often have to overcome obstacles (Mark 2:4; 7:27; 10:48). Here it is the reprimand of the disciples, who perhaps with good intentions are trying to protect Jesus from what they deem a nuisance. In their view, Jesus has more important things to do than attend to children, who had no status in the culture of the time. Once again they have fumbled, completely forgetting his teaching that to receive a child is to receive him (9:36–37).
10:14–15 This is the only instance in the Gospels where Jesus becomes indignant, a term indicating outrage at an offense—in this case the disciples’ attempt to hinder little ones from coming to him. Jesus states in the strongest possible terms his desire that children be granted access to him. He then gives an explanation that must have taken his disciples aback. The kingdom of God has been the whole subject of his preaching and ministry (1:15; 4:11; 9:1). It sums up everything to which the disciples aspire—and now he says it belongs to these little people whom they were just shooing away? Once again Jesus is overturning their whole scale of values. To explain further, he makes a solemn pronouncement: whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it. All are called to be “children” in relation to the kingdom. What is it about children that makes them such apt recipients of the kingdom? Children have no accomplishments with which to earn God’s favor, no status that makes them worthy. In their dependency they exemplify the only disposition that makes entrance into the kingdom possible: simply to receive it as a pure, unmerited gift (see Matt 5:3).
10:16 Jesus shows the children even more care and affection than their parents sought: he embraced and blessed them, placing his hands on them. It is the second time he has shown the warmth of his love for children (see 9:36). In so doing he reveals the disposition of God toward all his sons and daughters, his desire to bless them and enfold them in his embrace. Jesus’ action is a parable in gesture, complementing his earlier parables of the kingdom (4:1–33): to receive the kingdom is as simple, trusting, and humble an action as receiving the embrace of Jesus. Indeed, to enter the kingdom is nothing other than to enter into a relationship with Jesus.
 
 
  LIVING TRADITION
  St. Thérèse on Receiving the Kingdom like a Child
    What does it mean to be a child before God? “It is to recognize our nothingness, to expect everything from God as a little child expects everything from its father; it is to be disquieted about nothing, and not to be set on gaining our living.… To be little is not attributing to oneself the virtues that one practices, believing oneself capable of anything, but to recognize that God places this treasure in the hands of his little child to be used when necessary; but it remains always God’s treasure. Finally, it is not to become discouraged over one’s faults, for children fail often, but they are too little to hurt themselves very much.”a
 
 
 
Reflection and Application (10:13–16)
 
Jesus’ command to let the children come to him, along with the references in Acts to the baptism of entire households (Acts 16:15, 33; 18:8), formed part of the ancient Church’s rationale for the practice of infant baptism. Origen (ca. 185–254), and later St. Augustine (354–430), regarded infant baptism as a tradition received from the apostles.5 St. Irenaeus considered it a matter of course that the baptized should include “infants and small children.”6 Several Fathers, including Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, Jerome, and Augustine, vigorously reacted against the postponement of baptism, which they viewed as parental negligence, and begged parents not to delay the sacrament since it is necessary for salvation.
 
 
Mary Healy, The Gospel of Mark, Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2008), 198–199.

 

 


__________________________________________________
 
 
 
Jesus and the children
10:13–16. This Gospel account has an attractive freshness and vividness about it which may be connected with St Peter, from whom St Mark would have taken the story. It is one of the few occasions when the Gospels tell us that Christ became angry. What provoked his anger was the disciples’ intolerance: they felt that these people bringing children to Jesus were a nuisance: it meant a waste of his time; Christ had more serious things to do than be involved with little children. The disciples were well-intentioned; it was just that they were applying the wrong criteria. What Jesus had told them quite recently had not registered: “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me” (Mk 9:37).
Our Lord also stresses that a Christian has to become like a child to enter the Kingdom of heaven. “To be little you have to believe as children believe, to love as children love, to abandon yourself as children do …, to pray as children pray” (St Josemaría Escrivá, Holy Rosary, Prologue).
Our Lord’s words express simply and graphically the key doctrine of man’s divine sonship: God is our Father and we are his sons and daughters, his children; the whole of religion is summed up in the relationship of a son with his good Father. This awareness of God as Father involves a sense of dependence on our Father in heaven and trusting abandonment to his loving providence—in the way a child trusts its father or mother; the humility of recognizing that we can do nothing by ourselves; simplicity and sincerity, which make us straightforward and honest in our dealings with God and man.
 
 
Saint Mark’s Gospel, The Navarre Bible (Dublin; New York: Four Courts Press; Scepter Publishers, 2005), 104–105.
 
______________________________________________
 
-dan
 
PS: I did run the notes from the Navarra translation through Google Translate and found the same quote along with similar themed notes but not exactly the same thing and of course needing to utilized google translate is hardly an ideal method of study but I was curious about how close it's notes were to the larger english work and was shocked that in this case they were close to the same length in size albeit with slightly different texts.
 
PPS: I am not trying to dissuade you from Verbum as I use it ever day just wanted to state Accordance is not a bad choice for Catholics either.

Edited by Daniel Francis, 05 February 2018 - 03:54 PM.


#16 Unix

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:17 PM

Just honestly, I've barely found any must-have Catholic resources, only one would be RSV and that one is not explicitly Catholic - just strongly favoured only by Catholics nowadays and it's very easy to recommend it to fellows in EU. What I'd like would be something newer and more academic on Aquinas than even Vebum offers - they had some sales but I didn't buy anything - actually they had one good suitable resources last Month 15% off but even so I didn't buy it as it's a very long process to build an Aquinas library: I haven't spotted Summa Theologica in Latin only - non-bilingual or probably just skimmed past it if it costs hundreds reg. price. So mostly because of the latter aspect actually.

 

Regarding commentaries, by building up decent coverage by individual volume purchase I cover this facet. After the 1943 decision I don't think it's necessary to publish solely Catholic series.

 

Verbum 7 Silver has good value for money but I wouldn't recommend it now, it's not the right time, it's a fairly old hand-curated boxed product, with contracts negotiated in 2015 when they had a Catholic product manager the last time. With the long hiatus of that they didn't have one I have very low expectations for version 8, so skip that one too! Gold level starts to include resources I have elsewhere and I don't buy AYBD under advanced BIble Study software because of the sticker shock even during the VERY best sales under actual platforms - instead I it was gifted to me by a girl upon my wish under a bare-bones platform for cheaper than it ever has and likely ever will come out under Verbum or Accordance. Additionally as I have NIDB both digital and print + IDB in print, I really mean it that AYBD under Verbum Gold 8 would add ZERO in currency. Then I have NIB under Accordance and IB under WORDsearch. Not denying that with those there remains a difference to the AYBD approach, but still!

 

What I would suggest as a new Accordance aquisition: A journal such as CBQ.


Please SEE THIS recent LINK about Bible versions: https://www.christia...curate.7926578/ ... I use Confraternity Version a lot (both OT and NT). Exceptions/changes: Beck 1976 for GJn 8:32, 2004 GNT 3rd Ed. UK-English for Dt, NIV11-GKE for Isa also as a print journaling Bible; and I've added NIV78UK to regular use as well as NASB71 and 72 - these largely instead o the NIV84, RSV and NASB77. Additional versions I now both have and use: 1958 Westminster Version, 1985 NJB (two copies of which I like the older typesetting), 1970 NEB (in a four version parallel Bible), 1989 REB (beater HCs and white leather). (I recommend also a FB group for The Real Douay-Rheims 1610/1582 (purchasable from lulu.com))
NPP and English translations and commentaries as well as as a bit about learning the original languages: https://www.christia...posts/72219172/
Commentaries I both have and recommend as I don't regret my purchases - for the most part unspecified regarding which platform: https://community.lo...795.aspx#830795
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acchebrewpro.without.versionnumber.jpg
I'm growing only my Accordance and print libraries (EDIT March 28. 2018: I now really have quit altogether placing new orders elsewhere) and printed matter nowadays only through the sites biblio and alibris. In fact I occasionally duplicate things, depending on price. I don't buy Collections/base-packages at all, to me an OK print library is a Collection/base-package and is bragging-rights, a mid-size Collection would not be!! I have the Urantia Book now, rebound in leather and would read it together with someone. Books copyrighted in the most recent Years (2011 and later) have to be truly exceptional for me to buy them - this is a strategy I'm going to stick to - I do buy newer books but they are among the expensive purchases. I very rarely have to add any lexicons or Bible Dictionaries, I access them wherever, under Accordance I have bought HALOT and BDAG used and am subscribing to the DCH in print revised Edition. Otherwise I prefer BAGD actually which I have under L6.9. The best One-Volume Bible commentary is Oxford Bible Commentary.
NAB70 OT and L6 functionality including Chineze (which I don't speak/read) under spare account.
The Oxford Bible Commentary under other one pretty large current account that is the one I actually use. /Oct. 16. 2017 Edited Jan. 14. 2018. 

yesterday was 2 years since I returned from an archaeological trip to Turkey. /Apr 16. 2016 A bit of interest in Akkadian or Babylonian. /Apr. 2016
The toughest computer I have is: 8GB W7 i3 3110m 3rd gen Ivy Bridge (since it's W7 Professional and huge battery that actually can be gripped while carrying it open + a second "slice" battery) - on which I have Accordance 10, 1TB SSD of which only a small fraction is filled. | Until 1½ Years ago I had: 8GB W10 AMD FX-7600P (since it's AMD:s best laptop CPU - I LOVE and recommend only AMD). 
My desktop has the excellent value for money G2030 CPU Ivy Bridge - it's the one on which I have Accordance 12 Starter installed, suitable amount of RAM. /March 28. 2018
For satetite commuting a very old laptop just for emailing, dating sites, browsing for gear and tools for my Sole trader firm but not for Bible Study softwares, with graphics driver last version from 2009, Core 2 Extreme CPU, 4GB RAM (maxed), SSD 128 GB, three very old batteries.
 
Relevant and representative Facebook: https://www.facebook...100009160762403 (see also my more seldom updated Twitter). /signature abreviated June 16. 2018, amended Sept. 2. 2018, slightly more details Sept. 18.


#17 Rick Bennett

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:56 PM

I'm invested in Accordance because over a decade ago it was the best that would run on my Mac.  But as a Catholic, I find Accordance isn't really that interested in that market.  They have Catholic materials but only very basic ones.  Two of the most respected commentaries from a Catholic perspective that are relatively recent are the Ignatius and the Navarre.  Neither is available in Accordance and they are in Logos.  I'm seriously looking at getting Logos just for the Navarre OT and NT commentaries.

 

As I mentioned in this same thread, we are at the point where we can work with almost any publisher to acquire new titles, and we encourage users to request must-have titles. We read every request, and also look to see what kind of additional feedback those requests generate from other users. 

 

We recently licensed, but have not yet developed, The Wisdom Commentary (Liturgical Press). And as you probably saw, we have already released Berit Olam, and Sacra Pagina. And we're certainly open to acquiring more. Sometimes with new publishers it can take some time to work out details, but if a title is available on another platform that usually means they have a system in place for digital rights and distribution.

 

So, all that to say, if it comes to a must-have resource, request it, and we will do our best to look into and determine if it is feasible for us to do.

 

Thanks for the feedback and support.


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Rick Bennett
Director of Content Development


#18 Rick Bennett

Rick Bennett

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:00 PM

…the lack of original language support in the deuterocanonical books in Accordance is more than a little disappointing.

 

 

This came up in discussion just today. It's something we looked into when we originally released the NRSV with Strong's, but sidelined it due some significant hurdles in terms of technology, and textual matters (e.g. not all books in the Apocrypha have one source, and are not entirely in one language). That said, we are discussing it again.

 

Thanks for the feedback.


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Rick Bennett
Director of Content Development


#19 mgvh

mgvh

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 12:21 AM

I will not speak ill of other Bible software companies, and I can confirm the integrity of the Accordance folks. BibleWorks is also a committed group. (At the big--and expensive to rent a booth--annual Society of Biblical Literature convention, they are not open for business on Sundays.) BW also has a policy of including as many Bible versions as they economically possible can. That's why they include 46 English versions alone in their base package which is similar in pricing to a parallel Accordance package. I use Accordance, BW, and Logos, and each has a purpose for me. Logos does some things that the others can't, but it is expensive. BibleWorks is easiest for me to do quick textual work, but I am familiar with its challenging-to-some interface. This year I switched and have required Accordance. They have a good pricing policy for educational orders, the interface is easier for students to pick up than BW, it has better cross-platform support, and it includes most of what I want my students to have without getting a bunch of unhelpful stuff.


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#20 R. Mansfield

R. Mansfield

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 04:14 PM

The Wisdom Commentary Series (16 volumes) from Liturgical Press, mentioned above, is now available for Accordance.

 
For more information, please see today’s announcement blog post.

Rick Mansfield

Technology Evangelist

Accordance Bible Software

 

Gear for Running Accordance:

 

macOS

2014 Mac Mini - 2.6 Ghz dual core Intel Core i5, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD, macOS High Sierra

2016 15" MacBook Pro - 2.9 Ghz quad core Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB SSD, macOS Mojave (beta)

 

Windows

2018 10" Microsoft Surface Go - 1.6 Ghz Pentium Gold, 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, Windows 10 Pro

+ Parallels install of Windows 10 Pro on the above MacBook Pro

 

iOS

2017 iPhone X - 256 GB, T-Mobile, iOS 12 (beta)

2016 iPad Pro (12.9”) - 256 GB, T-Mobile, iOS 12 (beta)

 

Android 

2017 Amazon Fire HD 8 - 32 GB internal + 64 GB microSD, Fire OS 5.6 (=Android OS 5.x)

2017 Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 - 128 GB internal, Android OS 8.0

2017 Blu Grand M - 8 GB internal + 64 GB microSD, Android OS 6.0





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