Stepping up from NIDNTT to NIDNTTE / ZEB vs. ISBE vs. IVP

[TCanji]

Stepping up from NIDNTT to NIDNTTE / ZEB vs. ISBE-R vs. IVP

1. For those of you how had a chance to compare the two, would you please comment as to the necessity of an upgrade? As far as I could tell from the text available online the differences are not that huge (?!), however (disclaimer) I only had a chance to quickly observe some of the entries that were accessible online and one pdf file with few excerpts. As the 6 @ 60 % sale is coming to a close, I would most definitely appreciate you input.   
 

2. Same question but regarding the Encyclopedias. I own ISBE revised (another Bible software) and wander if purchasing ZEB will be a substantially better Encyclopedia? Besides, my plan is to eventually custom upgrade to IVP OT series. In your opinion - is ZEB a worthwhile purchase, is it that good / better in comparison with the other two?
 

I'd really appreciate your replay & honor your time as you give your answer to these "last minute" questions  of mine ... sorry for that I truly value your input before this amazing sale closes!!!
 

Thanks in advance!

[Timothy Jenney]

Hi, Tomi!

 

I have found the ZEB very uneven in the quality of its articles. It's pictures are great (It's one of the things Zondervan does very well.), but we have graphics resources that are much better. If you have ISBE ®, I'd encourage you to pass. Save up money for the IVP complete set. Now THERE is a resources really worth having. (BTW, I wouldn't have said this to you if you didn't already have a good multi-volume dictionary, since this is a really good sale. It is a big step up for anyone who just has a single-volume Bible dictionary)

 

The NIDNTTE is a very different resource than the NIDNTT. Most people who have compared the two find the latter is far better. I agree. I find its articles deeper and more comprehensive. I'd recommend it.

 

Hope this helps!

[Michael Hunt]

Tomi: I passed on ZEB for pretty much the reason discussed by you and Dr J. I already have ISBE Revised (but not in Accordance) plus all the dictionaries provided in the Ultimate collection (which I just upgraded to while the collections were on sale). The IVP dictionaries are my goto resource for in-depth treatments of topics and would be at the top of my recommendation list.

 

While the Zondervan sale was on I thought about stretching my budget to purchase ZEB, but since I already own a number of graphic resources in Accordance (ZEB's main strength) I decided not to. I did grab a copy of NIDNTEE and NIDOTEE hard copies of which I used to regularly access from my Seminary library when I was a student.

 

If it helps I have copied the entry for λίθος from NIDNTEE below for you to compare (I don't have NIDNTT to be able to show the difference unfortunately)

 

λίθος G3345 (lithos), stone;

λίθινος G3343 (lithinos), of stone;

λιθάζω G3342 (lithazō) and

λιθοβολέω G3344 (lithoboleō), to throw stones at, stone (to death), execute by stoning;

λιθόστρωτος G3346 (lithostrōtos), stone pavement (only as name)

 

Concepts: Death; Rock

 

GL The noun λίθος is common already in Homer with the plain and lit. meaning “stone,” but occasionally with a fig. sense (e.g., Od. 23.103, of a person’s heart being στερεωτέρη λίθοιο, “harder than stone”). The term can denote stones of every sort, incl. stones used for building (e.g., Diod. Sic. 1.66.3, of a tomb in Libya built ἐκ τῶν καλλίστων λίθων, “of the finest stones”), marble (e.g., Hdt. 4.87.1, referring to pillars λίθου λευκοῦ, lit., “of white stone”), and jewels (e.g., Herodian of Syria Ab excessu divi Marci 5.2.4, which uses the phrase λίθοι τίμιοι, “precious stones”). The word is sometimes used as a fem. noun when referring to a stone that is viewed as having special qualities (e.g., Plato Gorg. 486d, of a touchstone for testing the quality of gold). Many derivatives and compounds are attested, such as the adj. λίθινος, “made of stone, stony,” the vb. λιθάζω, “to throw stones” (rare before the LXX), the adj. λιθοβόλος (used mainly as a subst. for someone or something that throws stones), the noun λιθοδόμος, “mason,” etc.

 

JL 1 In the LXX λίθος occurs c. 300x (incl. 29x in Exodus), normally as the rendering of the common Heb. word אֶבֶן H74, which also has a wide range of usage (Gen 2:12 et al.). In isolated cases λίθος stands for various other terms (e.g., צְרוֹר II H7656, “pebble,” only 2 Sam 17:13). More than a dozen derivatives and compounds are found in the LXX, the most freq. of which is a vb. previously unattested, λιθοβολέω, “to stone, execute by stoning” (27x, incl. 5x each in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy). Also common is the adj. λίθινος (24x, incl. 7x in Deuteronomy and 6x in Exodus), esp. in the phrase πλάκες λίθιναι, “tablets of stone” (13x, e.g., Exod 31:18); of special interest is the fig. expression ἡ καρδία ἡ λιθίνη, “the heart of stone” (Ezek 11:19; 36:26).

 

2 In a number of passages the use of λίθος has theological significance. (a) One of them is Isa 8:11–15, where the prophet warns his people not to free themselves from the danger of an Assyrian invasion through self-sufficient and faithless exertions. He testifies that the real danger for Judah is not the Assyrians, but the proximity of God their judge, who will become “a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall” (8:14; Heb. אֶבֶן נֶגֶף, lit., “a stone of stumbling,” and צוּר מִכְשׁוֹל, “a rock of hindrance”). “Just as someone wandering in the night suddenly stumbles over a stone and falls to the ground, or on a mountain steps upon a loose fragment of rock and falls, the people of the covenant . . . will be smitten unexpectedly by the judgment of God” (O. Kaiser, Isaiah 1–12 [1972], 118). In a remarkable move, however, the Gk. translator, presumably offended by what he perceived as an unfavorable depiction of God, turns the sentence into a negative, οὐχ ὡς λίθου προσκόμματι συναντήσεσθε αὐτῷ οὐδὲ ὡς πέτρας πτώματι, “you will not encounter him as a stumbling caused by a stone nor as a fall caused by a rock” (NETS).

 

( Of special significance is Isa 28:16, which uses the image of the building of a house and its foundation stone. In contrast to the Jerusalem rulers’ alliances against Assyria, a policy that is doomed to fail, Yahweh is laying in Zion a firm foundation stone, which gives a stable base for the rest of the foundation, the walls, and the whole building. The language seems to invite a comparison with the Jerusalem temple. However, the subsequent affirmation, “the one who relies on it will never be stricken with panic,” interprets the foundation stone on which the building of the nation is to be erected as faith and trust in Yahweh’s help, which makes the anxious search for alliances superfluous. For further discussion of this passage see γωνία G1224 JL.

 

© Likewise Ps 118:22 [LXX 117:22] cites what looks like a proverb about a cornerstone (on this passage too see γωνία). The psalmist, who is thanking Yahweh for salvation, likens his precarious existence to a stone discarded by the builders as useless, but his having been rescued by Yahweh to the cornerstone or keystone of a building.

 

(d) Zechariah prophesies the completion of the postexilic temple by Zerubbabel: “What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’ (Zech 4:7; the Heb. for “capstone” is הָאֶבֶן הָרֹאשָׁה, lit., “the head stone,” but LXX has τὸν λίθον τῆς κληρονομίας, “the stone of inheritance”). The ref. to a great mountain is not to be taken lit. (cf. J. G. Baldwin, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi [1972], 121; cf. Isa 40:4; 41:15). The thought is that the powerful forces that oppose God’s work cannot impede it. A. Petitjean claims that by “head stone” Zechariah means a foundation stone (Les oracles du proto-Zacharie [1969], 243–51; cf. ANET 340–41). But Baldwin holds that the sense of the passage requires it to mean a completion stone, for the promise concerns the consummation of the building process (Zech 4:9). The completion is symbolic of the victory of God’s Spirit (cf. 4:6).

The prophecy continues, “For whoever has despised the day of small things shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel” (Zech 4:10 NRSV). The word “plummet” (NIV 1984, “plumb line”) stands for Heb. הָאֶבֶן הַבְּדִיל, which the LXX renders lit., τὸν λίθον τὸν κασσιτέρινον, “the tin stone.” Some scholars argue, however, that the Heb. phrase here should be understood as a parallel expression to “head stone” in 4:7. Now the Syriac version connects the noun ‏בְּדִיל with the vb. בדל H976 (hiph. “to separate”; cf. G. R. Driver, “Babylonian and Hebrew Notes,” WO 2 [1954]: 22), so perhaps the phrase means “stone of separation,” alluding to the special, holy nature of the Jewish community. Thus the NIV 2011 reads “the chosen capstone” (cf. also JB). “The cause of rejoicing, therefore, is the placing of this last ceremonial stone, the crown of all their work, on the height of the Temple walls, by Zerubbabel” (Baldwin, 123; other interpretations have been proposed).

 

(e) According to Dan 2:34–35, Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream a stone or rock break off from a mountain without any human agency and shatter the great image on its feet of iron and clay. The image was dispersed without trace. “But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.” In 2:44 the dream is interpreted as the establishment of God’s kingdom: “It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.”

 

3 In subsequent Jewish lit. various OT sayings about stones were given a messianic interpretation. Already in the LXX the phrase ὁ πιστεύων (“the one who believes”) at Isa 28:16 is qualified with the addition of ἐπ᾿ αὐτῷ (“in him”), and on that basis the conditional clause ἐὰν ἐπ᾿ αὐτῷ πεποιθὼς ᾖς (“if you believe in him”) has been added to 8:14. The Qumran community, appealing to 28:16 as evidence, regarded itself as the eschat. Israel and as God’s true temple (1QS VIII, 7–8). More explicit comments are found in the Talmud and other rabb. writings. The Aram. Tg., e.g., is explicit in understanding Zech 4:7 as a prophecy of the revelation of the Messiah (see further J. Jeremias in TDNT 4:272–73).

 

NT 1 The term λίθος occurs almost 60x in the NT, esp. in Luke (14x), Matthew (11x), Mark (8x), Revelation (8x), John (7x), and 1 Peter (5x); otherwise it is found 4x in all of Paul and 2x in Acts. The adj. λίθινος occurs only 3x (John 2:6 [stone jars]; 2 Cor 3:3 [stone tablets of the law]; Rev 9:20 [idols made of stone]). The vb. λιθάζω is used 8–9x (esp. in John, of attempts to stone Jesus), the compound καταλιθάζω once (Luke 20:6), and the LXX term λιθοβολέω 7x (e.g., Acts 7:58–59, of the stoning of Stephen). Finally, the noun λιθόστρωτος, “stone pavement,” occurs once as a proper name (the place also known as Gabbatha, where Pilate judged Jesus, John 19:13).

 

2 As may be expected, λίθος is often used lit., e.g., of a millstone (Luke 17:2 et al.; see μύλος G3685), the building blocks of the temple (Mark 13:1–2 et al.), a boulder for a tomb (Matt 27:60 et al.), or a precious stone (Rev 18:12 et al.). But several fig. uses are worth noting:

 

(a) The saying about the stones crying out (Luke 19:40) is to be understood against an OT and Jewish background, where we occasionally find refs. to the accusing cry of lifeless objects (Gen 4:10; Hab 2:11; 2 Esd 5:5; cf. Str-B 2:253). Jeremias gives this interpretation to Jesus’ saying: “If my disciples were to withhold their acclamation, the stones by the wayside would cry out and accuse them” (TDNT 4:270).

 

( It is doubtful whether John the Baptist’s saying that God can raise up children for Abraham “out of these stones” (Matt 3:9 par. Luke 3:8) alludes to Isa 51:1–2, where Abraham himself is described as the rock from which the nation was hewn (so Jeremias, TDNT 4:271). Rather, those whom the Baptist addresses certainly ought not to appeal to the descent of the whole nation from one man (which is emphasized in that passage), for God can make children of Abraham from stones. The offensive saying means that God can fashion a new Israel from people who can claim no qualifications (e.g., lineage) of their own (cf. Rom 4:9–25).

 

3 The chief fig. use of λίθος is in connection with OT passages that are given a messianic interpretation. (a) Occasionally Jesus is likened to a stone. Of special significance is the application of Ps 118:22 (117:22) to him in Mark 12:10 par.: “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.” Jesus, though rejected by human beings, is the one exalted by God. According to Acts 4:10–11, where the same OT passage is quoted, this exaltation has already taken place in Jesus’ resurrection. In Luke 20:18, by contrast, Jesus is likened to a destroying stone that will crush its opponents (an allusion to Dan 2:34).

 

( In Rom 9:32–33 and 1 Pet 2:4–8 (cf. also Luke 2:34) the positive interpretation of Jesus as the cornerstone or keystone is combined with the negative one of him as the destructive stone of offense by merging the stone passages in Isaiah and the Psalms. This interpretative move serves to show the twofold significance of Jesus as gospel and law, as salvation and disaster. It is the faith of individual persons that reveals whether Christ the stone has a vital (1 Pet 2:4) or a fatal (Luke 20:18) effect. In 1 Pet 2:5, however, Christians are likened to “living stones . . . built up into a spiritual house” (cf. Eph 2:20). The inanimate image of the building by itself is inadequate for the truth expressed. Because Christ himself lives and is a living stone, the foundation and thus the entire building is living; and because Christians live with and through him, they can be addressed as “living stones.” (Cf. C. N. Hillyer, “‘Rock-Stone’ Imagery in I Peter,” TynBul 22 [1971]: 58–81; and see further discussion and bibliog. s.v. πέτρα G4376.)

 

Bibliography

TDNT 4:267–80; EDNT 2:352–53; Spicq 2:396–400; TDOT 1:48–51; NIDOTTE 1:248–50.

 

“ Λ,” NIDNTTE, 3:118-122.

[Law N Gospel]

Dr. J:

 

You wrote: "The NIDNTTE is a very different resource than the NIDNTT. Most people who have compared the two find the latter is far better. I agree. I find its articles deeper and more comprehensive. I'd recommend it."

 

The "latter" would refer to the NIDNTT. You recommend the older edition over the newer revised edition?

[Helen Brown]

I am certain that Dr. J intended the opposite, the newer NIDNTTE is much more comprehensive that NIDNTT.

[Timothy Jenney]

Oops, Helen is correct. I meant to recommend the newer version over the older one.

[TCanji]

Thanks everyone - your input is greatly appreciated!

[ukfraser]

Tomi, im going to be controversial and disagree with dr j publicly!

 

Dont save for the ivp complete set!

 

Get sacred bridge which is currently on sale and exclusive to accordance!!!!! (Asuming you dont have it already) it is just so much more than an atlas.

 

;o)

[ojaeyah]

Oh no!
I just missed the deal! I've been meaning to purchase NIDNTTE and NIDOTTE.

Is there anyway to obtain the deal price? It was such an incredible bargain.

[Helen Brown]

I am sorry, these publishers specials are strictly limited to the published dates. We do give plenty of warning that the deal will expire.