Searching for Bi-consonantal Hiphil Ptcp

[Martin Z]

Hello, 

I wanted to find all the Bi-consonantal verbs that occur in Hiphil ptcp.

Here is the search command:

 

=??(יו)? @ [VERB hifil participle] 

I also did:

 

[VERB hifil participle] @=??(יו)? 

The result is the same.

 

The reason I wanted to do such a search is that I found an interesting form, which has a dagesh forte in the first root consonant shown below. However, this word did not show up in my search result. I don't know what's wrong with my search command. (I know I probably need to type a dagesh for those whose first root consonant is begadkephat letter. But the following verb has Samek.)

 

(Deut 27:17) "מַסִּ֖יג"

 

 

Thanks!

Martin

[Λύχνις Δαν]

How about :

 

 

Thx

D

Edited November 3, 2016 by דָנִיאֶל

[Ken Simpson]

[Verb hifil participle ] @??(וי)? works for me Martin

 

Gen 6:17; 9:9; 20:7; 38:29; 42:35; Exod 10:4; 16:8; 35:24; Lev 18:3; 20:22; 26:16; Num 14:3, 27; 15:18; 17:20; Deut 8:7; 27:17; 32:46; Josh 1:13; Judg 11:9; 20:33; 1 Sam 2:6, 8, 10; 26:12; 2 Sam 5:2; 12:11; 1 Kgs 10:25; 14:10; 17:6; 21:21; 2 Kgs 10:24; 17:26; 21:12; 22:16, 20; Isa 3:1; 10:15; 13:17; 19:16; 24:2; 27:11; 28:6; 29:7; 38:8; 44:25-26; 51:13; 57:1; Jer 4:6; 5:15; 6:19; 10:12, 20; 11:11; 17:26; 19:3, 15; 23:1; 26:15; 28:3-4; 31:8; 32:42; 33:11; 35:17; 39:16; 42:17; 43:3; 45:5; 49:5; 50:9, 32; 51:1, 15, 64; Ezek 6:3; 9:11; 23:22; 26:7; 28:7; 29:8; 37:5; 42:9; Hos 4:4; 5:10; 7:4; 11:4; Joel 4:7; Amos 2:13; 5:2; 6:14; Nah 2:2; Hab 1:6; Zech 2:13; 3:8; 4:12; 11:16; Ps 3:4; 19:8-9; 33:15; 37:26; 65:7; 74:5; 112:5; 113:7; 119:130; 144:13; 147:8; Job 4:20; 12:20, 24; 16:20; 20:18; 33:22; Prov 3:35; 8:9; 10:5; 11:25; 12:4; 14:29, 35; 17:2, 10, 13, 24; 18:13; 19:17, 26; 22:7; 24:26; 26:16; 28:2, 7, 9, 11; 29:13, 15; Ruth 4:15; Song 2:9; Eccl 5:11; Lam 1:16; Dan 1:4; 8:5, 23, 27; 11:6; Ezra 3:13; 8:16; Neh 8:2-3, 7, 9; 10:29, 32; 13:15-16; 1 Chr 11:2; 12:41; 15:22; 25:7-8; 27:32; 28:9; 2 Chr 9:14, 24; 17:11; 26:5; 32:11, 23; 34:12, 24, 28; 35:3

[Martin Z]

Hello Ken,

 

I upgraded to 12 yesterday. I did the same search again this morning after seeing your post, and it finds it.

Maybe the problem was with v.11?

 

Thanks!

[Λύχνις Δαν]

I definitely had issues with it when I tried it. I don't know why exactly but that's why I came up with the other search. I must have had the '=' in play I guess and not gone back to without it.  Works fine without it though, in the more compact form.

 

Thx

D

[Ken Simpson]

I think the = messes up the search and will exclude the msg result because the msg form as an exact lexeme is msg_1 so won't be found in the = wildcard search. The = is not needed and in fact will exclude important lexeme forms as it has in this case. Martin, why did you choose to include it in your original search string (I admit I completely overlooked that the = was there).

[Martin Z]

Hello Daniel and Ken,

 

Thank you for pointing this out. I learned a lot of things these days.

 

The reason I put an "=" was because I was lead by another post I started.

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/19711-how-to-search-for-all-nouns-with-specific-vowels/

 

In that post, Helen told me that if I don't put "=," the vowel points would be ignored by Accordance.

In this post, I did not have to put the "=". I did not know that by putting the "=" Accordance excludes all the homonyms. That brings me back to the post mentioned above. Did I exclude all the homonyms in that case then?

 

Martin

[Ken Simpson]

That's my understanding Martin. I am in a series of lectures, so can't test it, but do an analysis of you results and look for the _1 etc to show homonyms. I will check later when I get back to my computer.

[Mike Thigpen]

I did this search as

 

[verb hifil participle] @(?ו? , +?י?+)

 

This worked and found the form in Deut 27 (along with 187 other hits).  I used the + to indicate that I was looking for biconsonantal roots. I'm not sure if it's necessary to include the plus since the search seems to generate the same set of 188 hits either way, but it's another way to get there.

 

Mike

Edited November 4, 2016 by Mike Thigpen

[Martin Z]

I read the Help File (Here is the instruction).

 

Based on the Help File (please correct me if I'm mistaken),

 

Putting the "+" should finds all the words sharing the same root. This should include all parts of speech, such as nouns, adjectives, etc. (When you pull out the Analysis window, you should see the root form is in the parenthesis. The "+" sign asks Accordance to search for the form in the parenthesis, rather than the lexical form.)

 

Without "+", only the lexical forms that have the form we want will be found.

 

In the case above, the reason that both having and not having "+" returns the same result, is because we have already limited to "Verb Hiphil Participle." 

 

The only question is what database Accordance uses for root as well as lexical form, because BDB, HALOT and DCH probably have different views on certain words.

 

Lexical forms

If you simply copy or type a word in the Search Entry box for a tagged text, the word is treated as a lexical form, so it finds all occurrences of words that come from that lexical form.

Thus a search for the Greek lexical form http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX12/content/resources/images/accordancehelpv2/bib1.gif(biblos) finds all the forms of this word.

The easiest way to enter words in the Search Entry box is via the Select Lexical Forms dialog box (Search>Enter Lexical Forms or http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX12/content/resources/images/icons/apple_cmnd.gif+L). You can also select a word in the tagged text and click Search XXX from the Amplify menu (where XXX is the current module name), or right-click to use the shortcut menu.

http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX12/Skins/Default/Stylesheets/Images/transparent.gifRoot words

The plus sign (+) before a word specifies that it is a root so Accordance finds all occurrences of words that come from that root.

Thus a search for the Greek root http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX12/content/resources/images/accordancehelpv2/bib3.gif (+biblos) finds all the words derived from this root.

You can automatically enter these forms with the plus sign by pressing the option key as you select Enter Lexical Forms (Search menu or Opt+http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX12/content/resources/images/icons/apple_cmnd.gif+L) to open the Select Root Forms dialog box. You can also use this shortcut to select the word in text you are viewing: On the Amplify menu, press Shift+Opt+ Search.

Searching for roots cannot be combined with the exact form (=) sign. In Greek there are homograph markers to distinguish, for example, eis from heis.

In the roots, if there is no Hebrew root lamed-lamed is used for loan words from other languages, and nun-nun for not known.

 

[Ken Simpson]

Just checked. I would recommend this search

 

1—(יו)??= <OR> ?(יו)??=

 

Your initial search indeed only finds the non-homonymous lexemes (not roots!) Mike’s example does the roots. but finds it where there are multiple roots in the lexeme.