Gedalya Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 What is this and why should I want it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 This is a longstanding project to fully tag the Hebrew Bible with syntax and much more. Known for many years as WIVU, it has been available with other software for a while. Accordance offers a clean and easy to use implementation of the morphology and the syntax. It does not include all the information available in the database. I am sure we'll have more information available eventually, but the product page is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 It does not include all the information available in the database. Will the missing information come to Accordance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Will the missing information come to Accordance? What this means is that not every single piece of data was able to be adapted into our implementation inside Accordance without significantly changing things on our end. This was an acceptable trade-off compared to the overall usability with our construct searching, etc. I don't have an immediate example, but it will not affect the usability nor research quality of this resource in any significant manner. Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 What this means is that not every single piece of data was able to be adapted into our implementation inside Accordance without significantly changing things on our end. This was an acceptable trade-off compared to the overall usability with our construct searching, etc. I don't have an immediate example, but it will not affect the usability nor research quality of this resource in any significant manner. Thanks for the feedback. O.K. maybe later. Acc 13 or14;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieudonne Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 How is this different from Grammatical Syntax add-on to HMT-W4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 In German: VS 13 versus 30 different search tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieudonne Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Thanks, Fabian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I'm no expert but here goes. I'm pretty sure the underlying models of syntax are different though I am having trouble finding model details on ETCBC. Also, the Holmstedt syntax is tightly focused on syntax (http://individual.utoronto.ca/holmstedt/Ancient_Hebrew_Syntax_Database.html) whereas ETCBC has elements in it which go beyond syntax, including identifying some things related to discourse for example. Some posts have been made on questions like this in the past : https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/18448-syntax-database-add-on-modules-any-opinions/ The two syntax modules are driven through the same basic construct interface and the charting uses the same style. It has thus a really familiar look and feel to it in use which is really nice. It is possible to layout four panes : Hebrew MT for ETCBC, ETCBC Syntax, Holmstedt syntax, HMT-W4 and compare the differently handling of the structures. I have done so far almost nothing with this but it is way cool that it is possible. As one example I tried ETCBC can be searched for [OBJECT], what any ordinary grammar would call an object. In the Holmstedt syntax this is more involved as it does not provide objects directly. ETCBC also tag for things like QUESTION or TIME REFERENCE or LOCATIVE, and other things which go beyond just syntax. And as mentioned above there is more data in ETCBC that will apparently be on the way. For more details : ETCBC : http://www.accordancefiles1.com/products/ETCBC%20Glossary.pdffrom the product page to give you an idea. Holmstedt : http://www.accordancefiles1.com/products/BriefUserGuideHebrewSyntaxDatabase_2016.pdf. Thx D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 So if Andersen-Forbes also in Accordance we got them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Holmstedt Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 There was a session devoted to comparing the three databases at the IOSOT conference in South Africa last September. John Cook represented the our syntax, Dean Forbes represented his, and Wido van Peursen represented the ETCBC. The reports I heard were that it was very instructive. For what it's worth, I can affirm that both Andersen and Forbes and our team began with established linguistic theories, made careful and transparent adjustments due to the constraints of working with the ancient data, and then tagged the texts. I do not know how the ETCBC was developed. This may help because it was theoretical concerns about "object" in Hebrew that motivated us to abandon it as a suitable syntactic category for Hebrew. There will be a revision of the presentations coming out as an article in the Journal for Semitics (not to be confused with the Journal of Semitic Studies) sometime in mid-2017. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Thanx for that Robert - I would find that article very interesting to read when it comes out. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedcheung Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Is Dean Forbes working with Oaktree to have his dataset available on accordance Bible software too. I have Logos opened sometime just for the Andersen Forbes tagging. Pedro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Is Dean Forbes working with Oaktree to have his dataset available on accordance Bible software too. I have Logos opened sometime just for the Andersen Forbes tagging. Pedro I'm just dreaming. But who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Holmstedt Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I believe so. I've been encouraging Dean, so I think it'll happen at some point in the not too distant future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Yes, we are working with Dean, hope you will see Anderson-Forbes in 2017. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 See the new video demo of the ETCBC in Accordance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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