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Looking for a null antecedent


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#1 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 08:04 PM

Hi ya,

 

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  I need to clarify a little terminology and how I am understanding the graphs where antecedents are concerned.

 

  When I think of an antecedent I think of the constituent referred to, which is how the dictionary defines the term. It seems though that when one searches the syntax for [ANTECEDENT] that one finds both the constituent referred to and the constituent/s referring to it. Is that so ?

 

  If so, in this image then :

 

Attached File  NullAntecedentsEx.jpg   38.99KB   0 downloads

 

  χορτον is the actual antecedent and the two later null Subjects refer to antecedent 1. Now, if so, then is the "- 1" considered to be -1, that is "minus 1" rather than "dash space 1" ?

 

  The reason I ask about the -1 is that in the document BriefUserGuideHebrewSyntaxDatabase_2016.pdf specific reference is made to null antecedent identifiers being negative numbers. Yet I cannot find any negative numbers in the diagrams except if I interpret as above.

 

  Now if this is so then, are there really no true "null antecedents" as such but rather null constituents which refer to non-null antecedents ? And the reason I ask this question is because I was trying to find an example of one. It may in fact be a non-sensical concept of course, except perhaps in dislocation I suppose. If however such really do exist how do I search for them and could you post an example ? Either Greek or Hebrew would be fine.

 

Thx

D

 

 


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

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#2 Robert Holmstedt

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 08:53 AM

First, the antecedent tag covers "antecedence" as a relationship.

 

Second, the first term in a relationship is the antecedent and the second term is the anaphor. 

 

Third, I can see the source of confusion, but "-1" is not a negative number, but "-" (= null) + "1" (cross-referencing for antecedence relationship). 

 

Fourth, there *are* rare null "antecedents" (the first term) in some Hebrew poetry. I use the quotations marks around "antecedent" because though we use the "-" tag and the cross-referencing "1+" tag, such cases are technically distinct from antecedence proper and are actually examples of backwards ellipsis/gapping, where the gap is in the first clause and the overt item in the second clause. But I doubt there are any of these in the Greek NT.

 

Fifth, searching for backwards ellipsis remains, at the present time, unworkable. There are still some subtle but deep things to work out in the antecedent searching. It is perhaps the last but most difficult part of the search programming for syntax.


Edited by Robert Holmstedt, 24 November 2016 - 08:56 AM.

Professor, Hebrew and Northwest Semitic Languages
Dept. of Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations
The University of Toronto
blog: ancienthebrewgrammar.wordpress.com
https://utoronto.aca...RobertHolmstedt

#3 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 10:52 AM

Thanx for the detailed explanations. I had in fact tried to do this in both Hebrew and Greek to no avail. I will wait for the enhancements in the future that are required for this.

 

Thanx again

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Configurations :

Mac :     2009 27" iMac

          12GB RAM

 

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
          Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

 

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1





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