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Problem with Zondervan Exegetical Commentary Translation & Graphical Layout

ZECNT Colossians

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#1 tmykkanen

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:52 PM

Hello,

 

For some reason, the graphical layout does not appear to be working or formatted correctly for the ZECNT (at least the Colossians part). For example, I've attached two images. One is the graphical layout as it should appear for Colossians 1:1-8, the other is a screen capture from the way it appears in my copy. Is this how everyone else's copy looks or is there something wrong with my display preferences that is causing this? Right now, the argument tracing part of the commentary is unusable because of this and that's one of the primary reasons I purchased it.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

-Tyler

 

Colossians how it's supposed to look:

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-05-23 at 8.38.04 PM.png   189.23KB   2 downloads

 

Colossians in Accordance:

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-05-23 at 8.38.33 PM.png   201.11KB   0 downloads



#2 Helen Brown

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:06 AM

I cannot find this in Accordance. Can you supply a page number? Are you sure it's ZEC-NT?


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#3 tmykkanen

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:20 AM

I cannot find this in Accordance. Can you supply a page number? Are you sure it's ZEC-NT?

 
 
Helen,
 
It's page 45 in the ZECNT module. Here's the link (not sure if these are unique to each users machine): accord://read/ZEC-NT#58579
 
And here's a screenshot with the module info:

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-05-24 at 11.16.32 AM.png   41.58KB   1 downloads



#4 Helen Brown

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:40 AM

Thanks, we definitely should be able to improve on that. We could do an image chart but we prefer the text be searchable, hence it looks like the developers tried something else.

 

I used Report a Correction to send it in to the text developer/correction department.


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#5 tmykkanen

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:46 AM

Thanks, we definitely should be able to improve on that. We could do an image chart but we prefer the text be searchable, hence it looks like the developers tried something else.

 

I used Report a Correction to send it in to the text developer/correction department.

 

 

Thank you, Helen. I appreciate you looking into it. Searchable is nice, but more important (to me at least) for this feature is that the graphical layout is accurate.


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#6 pbgroover

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 04:09 PM

Considering the current ZECNT sale, I am wondering whether this formatting problem been fixed? I too appreciate the argument tracing part of this series in the printed volumes, how does it now look in Accordance?
Thanks Paul

#7 tmykkanen

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 04:15 PM

Paul,

 

Super strangely, Colossians 1:1-8 (the section I mention above) now has an image matching the one I posted above instead of the jumbled text. However, all of the other sections in Colossians are garbled like the 1:1-8 passage I posted above. Philemon is the same. I didn't check the others.

 

Perhaps Helen or someone else can update us? Helen, your report a correction might have flagged 1:1-8, but the whole module needs to be fixed (IMO).



#8 Alistair

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:22 PM

I have seen a sample PDF of the Acts volume in the series, and frankly I was disappointed with the layout/typesetting of these outline charts in the print edition.

 

While the chart I saw in the Accordance module of Acts was more or less the same (similar problem to the one reported by the OP), this is clearly a situation where the Oak-folk can improve on the printed version.

 

Even if I disable "limit text width" in preferences I am getting these "translation" charts with weird alignment.

Is it an issue with tabbing? I have tried changing the display font, and I have looked in different sections of the module (Acts Colossians James etc) and it seems consistent throughout.

 

UPDATE A quick analysis of a chart taken at random reveals it to be a disastrous combination of hard spaces and tabs. I think that's where your problem lies.  See attached image of text pasted into Pages and set to show invisibles. There is no excuse for attempting to align text with spaces and not tabs. Your "developers" must have trained on manual typewriters. I am not impressed (former professional typesetter speaking here).

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 00.49.25.png   372.5KB   1 downloads

 

And seeing as this is a digital module, please separate Philemon from Colossians and put the books in the usual canonical order.


Edited by Alistair, 23 September 2017 - 06:53 PM.


#9 Alistair

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:24 PM

Thanks, we definitely should be able to improve on that. We could do an image chart but we prefer the text be searchable, hence it looks like the developers tried something else.

Helen, the way you referred to "the developers" makes it sound like you did not develop this module in-house, but had it done by a third-party—is that right?



#10 Helen Brown

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 09:25 PM

I meant our team of module developers, those who prepare etexts and convert them into Accordance modules.

 

I see that the update to the ZECNT which is currently on sale does have the chart mentioned above (Col 1:1-8) as an image which appears correctly. However, the subsequent "Translation" charts are left as text. As we said above, the text versions are searchable, and it seems to me that in most places they are quite understandable. However, with Paul's extended sentences, the loss of the diagram can make the chart incomprehensible.

 

Your feedback is welcomed as we consider how best to handle these cases.


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#11 Abram K-J

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 09:31 PM

With the graphical layouts, would it be too cumbersome to include both an image chart (to fully preserve formatting) *and* converted text (to fully preserve searchability)? 


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#12 Alistair

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:12 AM

If they were correctly laid out with tabs you could indicate that that the user should expand their window/disable "limit text width".

 

Or you could program it in such a way that it would open up in another tab/panel/frame/pop-up window or whatever.



#13 Rick Bennett

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 02:01 PM

In the recently released volumes we did a much better job at representing the print ed's very complex formatting (which varies per volume) for these sections (see a screen shot below). We do plan to go back to the older volumes (released in 2012) and update them, but this will be a lot of work and may take some time until an update is released.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-09-25 at 2.59.36 PM.png   462.35KB   4 downloads


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#14 Alistair

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 03:13 PM

I think you should make "eating wild locusts and honey" align with "wearing camel's hair etc" in the line above it. (6a and B) as in the original.

 

And 5c should align with 4b&c, even though the original also gets it wrong IMHO

 

Otherwise your layout looks very good to me.



#15 miguel1981

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 09:51 AM

Helen,

 

 

     I noticed that there was an update to the ZECNT but it didn't correct the issue concerning the epistles of John not properly tied to my bible in parallel tab, maybe that update wasn't for that or maybe it is on my end should i uninstall and reinstall to see if it corrects the issue?

 

thx



#16 Julie Palmer

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

 

     I noticed that there was an update to the ZECNT but it didn't correct the issue concerning the epistles of John not properly tied to my bible in parallel tab, maybe that update wasn't for that or maybe it is on my end should i uninstall and reinstall to see if it corrects the issue?

 

 

The latest ZECNT-11 update was to provide support for the transfer of highlights from the original ZEC-NT module. The other module issues have not yet been addressed.



#17 tmykkanen

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:57 AM

In the recently released volumes we did a much better job at representing the print ed's very complex formatting (which varies per volume) for these sections (see a screen shot below). We do plan to go back to the older volumes (released in 2012) and update them, but this will be a lot of work and may take some time until an update is released.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2017-09-25 at 2.59.36 PM.png

 

Thanks Rick, that looks much better! I'm sure it's a lot of work to update the previous modules. I'm glad there is a plan to do it.






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