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Matthew 10.34 (I did not come to ___ peace...) and Syntax Search


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#1 mgvh

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 11:49 AM

I just wrote a rather lengthy blog post on Matthew 10.34 where I puzzle about the use of βάλλω as verb used in connection with /bringing, casting, imposing, causing/ peace. I show a variety of steps I took to think about the question, and I indicate how I use BibleWorks, Logos, or Accordance to answer them.

One point I make is the usefulness of syntactical databases. BW does not have it. Logos has it for both Hebrew OT, LXX, and Greek NT. From what I can find, Accordance has it for Hebrew OT and Greek NT. Question: Is there a syntax add-on for the LXX in Accordance?

 

More helpfully for me... I have the Greek/Hebrew Discoverer package which does not include the GNT syntax add-on. I would appreciate it if someone who does have it could run a search and report the findings either here or as a comment on the blog. In particular, I would like to see how you constructed the search and the results when looking for all the verbs that take εἰρήνη as their object. (This is a bit vague, since it includes not only direct objects of indicatives but also objects of infinitives and imperatives.)

 

In Logos, I actually could use either a 'clause' search which provides better analytics (but includes some false hits) as well as a 'syntax' search which gives accurate results (but I have to pull out the verbs myself).

 

Please note, this is not a competition between Bible software packages. I have mainly used BW and Logos for different purposes, but for a number of reasons,* this year I'm making the big switch to Accordance as the required software package for my seminary students. I.e., I'm trying to determine how the syntax database in Accordance works and how I can explain it to my students.

 

*Why the switch to Accordance?

We have used BibleWorks for many years, and it is an outstanding value for the resources it includes. We have had some issues with its use on Macs (though matters have greatly improved), but the program still does reflect its early roots and uses a not-entirely-intuitive command line for many functions. For an old DOS guy (as I am), it's no problem and makes for very fast entry and calculations, but for new seminary students who are not always tech-savvy, it can be a challenge. BW has made great progress in its interface, but even where it is Windows-friendly, Mac users report some problems 'getting' the interface. It's also not likely that BW will be available on portable devices any time soon, and that's a drawback for many people who want their Bible software available in their pocket. Finally, BW has been adding some good basic, supplementary/secondary resources (ESV study Bible, Eerdmanns Bible Dictionary, Picture database, mapping module) in addition to the large number of original language resources, but BW is not intended to be a full biblical library resource center.

I do believe that Logos is probably the most powerful and capable program available. It comes in both native Windows and Mac and portable versions. (It's the version I use on my Android phone.) The databases are remarkable, and all the available secondary resources are beyond my financial means! Still, I have been accumulating many secondary resources that I use regularly, and for some grammatical / syntactical work, only Logos can do the job. But... the price for a base package that I would ask my students to buy was a few hundred dollars more than BW or Accordance, and it required a lot of upfront money from the seminary. In summary, Logos is fantastic, but you're going to have to pay for the luxury.

As for Accordance, we could use the seminary purchasing program to allow students to get Greek/Hebrew Discoverer for ~$240 / person. This is a great price, and it includes almost all the basics a student would need to get started. Accordance has an excellent selection of secondary materials to expand one's library, so it can grow w/ a student. It works well on both Mac and Windows and iOS. Now we just need an Android version...


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#2 Joel Brown

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

Mark,  I'm certainly not an expert on Greek or the Syntax, but I believe this is the construction you would want:

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-06-27 at 3.49.57 PM.png   33.85KB   4 downloads

 

It gives me results in the following verses:

 

Matt 10:34; Luke 12:51; John 14:27; 16:33; Acts 10:36; 12:20; 24:2; Rom 5:1; 15:13; Eph 2:15, 17; 2 Thess 3:16; Jas 3:18; 1 Pet 3:11; Rev 6:4

 

Running an analysis on the results, I get the following verb usage:

αἰτέω to ask = 1

βάλλω to throw, put = 2
δίδωμι to give = 1
εὐαγγελίζω (εὖ, ἄγγελος) to proclaim good news = 2
ζητέω to seek, inquire = 1
λαμβάνω to take, receive, choose = 1
πληρόω to fill; fulfill = 1
ποιέω to do, make; to work = 2
 
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for, but I think it is at least close!  One thing you'll note is the use of Complement instead of Object, but I recognize they are not identical.  It would be better for someone else (Prof. Fabbri?) to take a look, both in explaining Complements vs Objects, and to perhaps refine or explain results.
 
I'm also going to move this to the Syntax forums for better organization.

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#3 Abram K-J

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 04:24 PM

Hi, Mark--to answer your question re: an LXX syntax database, there is not one in Accordance, but it would be great to have one! If you mean the Cascadia Syntax graphs in Logos, FWIW, those only cover apocryphal LXX books, not the rest of the Greek OT.

Which simply points up one of the lamentable realities of Septuagint studies at the moment--as far as it has come, the resources available still pale in comparison to what there is (whatever the platform, or in print) for the Greek NT.


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#4 Emanuel Cardona

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 04:40 PM

If you mean the Cascadia Syntax graphs in Logos, FWIW, those only cover apocryphal LXX books, not the rest of the Greek OT.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Abram! Interestingly, I had saw this here, but that was a few years ago.


Edited by Emanuel Cardona, 27 June 2017 - 04:43 PM.

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#5 Abram K-J

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 04:50 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure if that's an active project or not. Doesn't look like it is.

 

So it looks like Accordance could own the MASSIVE Septuagint market if it provided a syntactical database. Okay, so it's not massive. :) I suspect the issue, though, is finding the scholars who have the time to head it up.


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#6 mgvh

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 09:43 PM

Hi, Mark--to answer your question re: an LXX syntax database, there is not one in Accordance, but it would be great to have one! If you mean the Cascadia Syntax graphs in Logos, FWIW, those only cover apocryphal LXX books, not the rest of the Greek OT.

Which simply points up one of the lamentable realities of Septuagint studies at the moment--as far as it has come, the resources available still pale in comparison to what there is (whatever the platform, or in print) for the Greek NT.

Thanks, Abram. Actually, in Logos, "Clause" (not Syntax) searches are run separately. They apparently have done clause analysis for the SBLGNT, Swete's LXX, and the Lexham Hebrew. Here's what my LXX search looked like and the results (collapsed) that it returned. I have chose to group results by verb lemma.

 

I've also attached what it looks like when you expand the organizing header. I'm not sure I trust it 100%, but it's a good start. Abram, as you noted in your followup post, there is not a MASSIVE demand for LXX resources... :(

Attached Files


Edited by mgvh, 27 June 2017 - 09:44 PM.


#7 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 10:03 PM

Hi Mark,

 

  You don't give a complete list of your hits in Logos syntax in your blog post but I made a couple of minor tweaks to Joel's search to cover the following cases.

 

  There are several hits that occur with the verb after the noun, so setting "Search both directions" is required. For example two of the εχω hits are like this. In addition there are some where the verb is not in the predicate phrase directly but embedded within other clauses within it. So pushing the depth value up a little helpful. More than 3 though introduces other issues. Finally there is a case where ειρηνη is an adjunct to οδον and so I added a Complement specifier to ensure that we were not finding an adjunct within a complement phrase that just happened to be the word you wanted.

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   27.65KB   2 downloads

 

These are the hit references :

 

Μαθθαῖον 10·34
Λουκᾶν 12·51
Λουκᾶν 14·32
Ἰωάννην 14·27
Ἰωάννην 16·33
Πράξεις 9·31
Πράξεις 10·36
Πράξεις 12·20
Πράξεις 24·2
Ῥωμαίους 5·1
Ῥωμαίους 15·13
Γαλάτας 5·22
Ἐφεσίους 2·14
Ἐφεσίους 2·15
Ἐφεσίους 2·17
Θεσσαλονικεῖς β 3·16
Τιμόθεον β 2·22
Ἑβραίους 12·14
Ἰακώβου 3·18
Πέτρου α 3·11
Ἀποκάλυψις 6·4

 

These are the words :

 

Total number of chapters = 19
  (total number of verses displayed = 21)

[LINK Greek Construct 3] left-to-right —> (17 total words)

Number of different forms = 13:
(Triple-click a form to see its occurrences)

        αἰτέω    to ask = 1
        βάλλω    to throw, put = 2
        δίδωμι    to give = 1
        διώκω    to pursue, persecute = 1
        εἰμί    (ἐιμί)    to be, exist (sum) = 1
        ἐρωτάω    to ask, question = 1
        εὐαγγελίζω    (εὖ, ἄγγελος)    to proclaim good news = 2
        ἔχω    to have = 1
        ζητέω    to seek, inquire = 1
        λαμβάνω    to take, receive, choose = 1
        πληρόω    to fill; fulfill = 1
        ποιέω    to do, make; to work = 2
        σπείρω    to sow = 1


[LINK Greek Construct 3] <— right-to-left (7 total words)


      ---------------

Number of different forms = 5:
(Triple-click a form to see its occurrences)

        ἀφίημι    (ἀπό, ἵημι)    to forgive, permit, free, neglect, abandon = 1
        δίδωμι    to give = 2
        διώκω    to pursue, persecute = 1
        ἔχω    to have = 2
        τυγχάνω    to obtain; to happen; to hit upon = 1
 

They seem to accord with the data in your blog from a quick squiz.

 

As to explaining the syntax db to your students there is a PDF on the Accordance website that gives you the basics and background. http://www.accordanc...tabase_2016.pdf

 

Thx

D


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Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
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lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

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#8 Abram K-J

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 10:09 PM

Hi, Mark--thanks for the reply. I was thinking more of a syntax tree, or syntax graph. Something for the LXX like this would be nice! 


Edited by Abram K-J, 27 June 2017 - 10:10 PM.

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#9 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 10:25 PM

 a . . . squiz.

 

 

Had to look this up. Now it’s one of my favorite expressions.


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#10 mgvh

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 11:10 PM

 

Mark,  I'm certainly not an expert on Greek or the Syntax, but I believe this is the construction you would want:

 

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2017-06-27 at 3.49.57 PM.png

 

It gives me results in the following verses:

 

Matt 10:34; Luke 12:51; John 14:27; 16:33; Acts 10:36; 12:20; 24:2; Rom 5:1; 15:13; Eph 2:15, 17; 2 Thess 3:16; Jas 3:18; 1 Pet 3:11; Rev 6:4

 

Running an analysis on the results, I get the following verb usage:

αἰτέω to ask = 1

βάλλω to throw, put = 2
δίδωμι to give = 1
εὐαγγελίζω (εὖ, ἄγγελος) to proclaim good news = 2
ζητέω to seek, inquire = 1
λαμβάνω to take, receive, choose = 1
πληρόω to fill; fulfill = 1
ποιέω to do, make; to work = 2
 
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for, but I think it is at least close!  One thing you'll note is the use of Complement instead of Object, but I recognize they are not identical.  It would be better for someone else (Prof. Fabbri?) to take a look, both in explaining Complements vs Objects, and to perhaps refine or explain results.
 
I'm also going to move this to the Syntax forums for better organization.

 

Thank you very much for running that, Joel! Yes, it depends a bit on whether you are asking for a (direct) object of a verb or simply the word appearing in a complement clause. I took your results and compared them with what the search for ειρηνη in a clause complement returned in Logos. Logos found 29 results, but once I sorted through them, 8 of them were instances were ειρηνη was not the object but part of a complement clause or was the object of a preposition. My comparison is below (indented ones are ones Logos found but not Accordance).

I see that Logos found 3 instances that Accordance should have found: Acts 9.31; 2 Tim 2.22; Heb 12.14

Accordance found 1 that Logos didn't: Rom 15.13

 

Hmm... it's those kind of discrepancies that do not instill confidence when I make a claim based on the software and when there might be some questions in the coding or how the search is specifically constructed.

 

In any case... my originating question was answered. The use of βάλλω in Matthew 10.34 is unique and probably deserves more emphasis than just saying "have peace." (And that was what I argued in the blog post)

 

Thanks again!

 

Logos Clause Search
verb:ANY object-lemma:εἰρήνη in SBLGNT

⦁    βαλλω x2   Matthew 10:34
⦁    διδωμι Luke 12:51

     ⦁    Luke 14:32 Obj of preposition (ἐρωτᾷ τὰ πρὸς εἰρήνην)
     ⦁    Luke 19:37–38 whole phrase is object of what people are saying
    ⦁    Luke 19:42  Obj of preposition (τὰ πρὸς εἰρήνην)
⦁    διδωμι - ἀφιημι   John 14:27
⦁    ἐχω  John 16:33
    ⦁    Acts 9:31 - direct object  Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία ... εἶχεν εἰρήνην
⦁    εὐαγγελιζω  Acts 10:36
⦁    αἰτεω  Acts 12:20
⦁    τυγχανω  Acts 24:2
    ⦁    Romans 3:17 - in the genitive but part of the object clause
⦁    ἐχω  Romans 5:1
    ⦁    Romans 14:19 in the genitive but part of the object clause  τὰ τῆς εἰρήνης διώκωμεν
⦁    πληροω  ROMANS 15.13  ὁ δὲ θεὸς τῆς ἐλπίδος πληρώσαι ὑμᾶς πάσης χαρᾶς καὶ εἰρήνης ἐν τῷ πιστεύειν - This is one is interesting. πληροω takes a double complement, one in the accusative, another in the genitive (which is εἰρήνης here). OpenText Clause Analysis does mark both as a complement.
⦁    ποιεω  Ephesians 2:15
⦁    εὐαγγελιζω  Ephesians 2:17
    ⦁    Ephesians 4:1–3  - in the genitive but part of the object clause
    ⦁    1 Thessalonians 5:3 εἰρήνη is not an object but part of an object clause
⦁    διδωμι 2 Thessalonians 3:16
    ⦁    2 Timothy 2:22  direct object    δίωκε δὲ ... εἰρήνην  OpenText Clause Analysis does mark it as a complement.
     ⦁    Hebrews 12:14  direct object    Εἰρήνην διώκετε

⦁    ποιεω  James 3:18
⦁    ζητεω  1 Peter 3:11
    ⦁    2 Peter 3:14  object of preposition εὑρεθῆναι ἐν εἰρήνῃ
⦁    λαμβανω  Revelation 6:4

αἰτέω to ask = 1
ἀφίημι to leave = 1
βάλλω to throw, put = 2
δίδωμι to give =3

διώκω to pursue = 2
εὐαγγελίζω (εὖ, ἄγγελος) to proclaim good news = 2
ἐχω to have = 3
ζητέω to seek, inquire = 1
λαμβάνω to take, receive, choose = 1
πληρόω to fill; fulfill = 1
ποιέω to do, make; to work = 2
τυγχανω  to enjoy = 1



#11 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 03:07 AM

Mark: are you looking for this image?

 

Attached File  Mark 10,34.PNG   47.23KB   0 downloads

 

The numbers 1 and 2 are attached to verbs where they appear, and 01 an 02 to the same verbs where they are subsequently understood.


Edited by Marco V. Fabbri, 28 June 2017 - 03:07 AM.

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#12 mgvh

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 09:25 AM

Hi Mark,

 

  You don't give a complete list of your hits in Logos syntax in your blog post but I made a couple of minor tweaks to Joel's search to cover the following cases.

 

  There are several hits that occur with the verb after the noun, so setting "Search both directions" is required. For example two of the εχω hits are like this. In addition there are some where the verb is not in the predicate phrase directly but embedded within other clauses within it. So pushing the depth value up a little helpful. More than 3 though introduces other issues. Finally there is a case where ειρηνη is an adjunct to οδον and so I added a Complement specifier to ensure that we were not finding an adjunct within a complement phrase that just happened to be the word you wanted.

 

attachicon.gifsc.jpg

 

These are the hit references :

 

Μαθθαῖον 10·34
Λουκᾶν 12·51
Λουκᾶν 14·32
Ἰωάννην 14·27
Ἰωάννην 16·33
Πράξεις 9·31
Πράξεις 10·36
Πράξεις 12·20
Πράξεις 24·2
Ῥωμαίους 5·1
Ῥωμαίους 15·13
Γαλάτας 5·22
Ἐφεσίους 2·14
Ἐφεσίους 2·15
Ἐφεσίους 2·17
Θεσσαλονικεῖς β 3·16
Τιμόθεον β 2·22
Ἑβραίους 12·14
Ἰακώβου 3·18
Πέτρου α 3·11
Ἀποκάλυψις 6·4

 

These are the words :

 

Total number of chapters = 19
  (total number of verses displayed = 21)

[LINK Greek Construct 3] left-to-right —> (17 total words)

Number of different forms = 13:
(Triple-click a form to see its occurrences)

        αἰτέω    to ask = 1
        βάλλω    to throw, put = 2
        δίδωμι    to give = 1
        διώκω    to pursue, persecute = 1
        εἰμί    (ἐιμί)    to be, exist (sum) = 1
        ἐρωτάω    to ask, question = 1
        εὐαγγελίζω    (εὖ, ἄγγελος)    to proclaim good news = 2
        ἔχω    to have = 1
        ζητέω    to seek, inquire = 1
        λαμβάνω    to take, receive, choose = 1
        πληρόω    to fill; fulfill = 1
        ποιέω    to do, make; to work = 2
        σπείρω    to sow = 1


[LINK Greek Construct 3] <— right-to-left (7 total words)


      ---------------

Number of different forms = 5:
(Triple-click a form to see its occurrences)

        ἀφίημι    (ἀπό, ἵημι)    to forgive, permit, free, neglect, abandon = 1
        δίδωμι    to give = 2
        διώκω    to pursue, persecute = 1
        ἔχω    to have = 2
        τυγχάνω    to obtain; to happen; to hit upon = 1
 

They seem to accord with the data in your blog from a quick squiz.

 

As to explaining the syntax db to your students there is a PDF on the Accordance website that gives you the basics and background. http://www.accordanc...tabase_2016.pdf

 

Thx

D

Thank you, Daniel! It appears we were overlapping in our responses, and I came in a bit later with more details.

  1. I'm impressed with the way you set up the search. If you compare your results with the much less sophisticated clause search I did in Logos, you'll see that I think you found all the pertinent results including the Rom 15.13 one Logos missed.
    1. It did pick up Luke 14.32 and James 3.18 where ειρηρνη is actually the object of a preposition
    2. It picked up 2 instances where ειρηνη is a predicate nominative - Eph 2.14; Gal 5.22
  2. Thank you for "squiz." I had to give it a squiz to determine its meaning. (originated 1916 in Australia!) I shall make a point of using it whenever I can.

I can see that eventually I will need to get the syntax module...

Thanks again.



#13 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:42 PM

Hi Mark,

 

  I knew about the statives but had not looked at Lk 14:32 and James 3:18.

  If I reduce the depth setting further to 1 then Lk 14:32 goes away while all the others remain.

  James 3:18 though contains ειρηνη in two places.

 

  In this case the search highlighted the second occurrence which is not the preposition case :

 

      Ἰακώβου 3·18 καρπὸς δὲ δικαιοσύνης ἐν εἰρήνῃ σπείρεται τοῖς ποιοῦσιν εἰρήνην.

 

Thx

D


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Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

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#14 rwrobinson88

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 06:03 AM

Thanks, Abram. Actually, in Logos, "Clause" (not Syntax) searches are run separately. They apparently have done clause analysis for the SBLGNT, Swete's LXX, and the Lexham Hebrew. Here's what my LXX search looked like and the results (collapsed) that it returned. I have chose to group results by verb lemma.

 

I've also attached what it looks like when you expand the organizing header. I'm not sure I trust it 100%, but it's a good start. Abram, as you noted in your followup post, there is not a MASSIVE demand for LXX resources... :(

 

Just so you know, if you notice the hits, it seems they are only for the apocryphal books. I'm pretty sure it's because the clause search is based upon the Cascadia Syntax Database. It didn't seem like that was clear. I just wanted to make sure you know that. :) 






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