Is Douay-Rheims Bible the Challoner Revision?

[Brett K.]

Is the Douay-Rheims module for Accordance the original translation or the Challoner Revision?

Thanks

[Julie Palmer]

It is not the Challoner Revision.

Rheims New Testament, 1582
Douay Old Testament, 1610

[Daniel Francis]

Julie I think you may be wrong on that one:

 

The Gentils to be coheires and concorporat and comparticipant of his promis in Christ JESUS by the Gospel: whereof I am made a minister according to the gift of the grace of God, which is given me according to the operation of his power. To me the least of al the sainctes is given this grace, among the Gentils to evangelize the unsearcheable riches of Christ, and to illuminate al men what is the dispensation of the sacrament hidden from worldes in God, who created al things: that the manifold wisedom of God, may be notified to the Princes and Potestats in the celestials by the Church, according to the prefinition of worldes, which he made in Christ JESUS our Lord. In whom we have affiance and accesse in confidence, by the faith of him. Ephesians 6:3-12 1582 version.

 

6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body: and copartners of his promise in Christ Jesus, by the gospel 7 Of which I am made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God, which is given to me according to the operation of his power. 8 To me, the least of all the saints, is given this grace, to preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ: 9 And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God who created all things: 10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he made in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Ephesians 6:3-12 Copied off my iPad out of Accordance.

 

The revision is standard like asking if you have KJv 1611, very hard to find and somewhat unintelligible compared to the 1769 revision that is standard and generally only thing published.

 

-Dan

[Julie Palmer]

Sorry. I was purely going off the copyright dates listed in the module.

[Daniel Francis]

Very easy mistake, one might assume the KJV was 1611, but that was simply the initial release and not the current version. Indeed it is not wrong to have that date but good to realize that it has been modified for clarity over the years, indeed the DR revision was in direct response to the KJV of 1769, it was so popular among Catholics that chancellor decided that the DR needed to be improved to make it more readable. It still suffers from its strong tie to the Latin, but all in all is quite readable, although lacking in my mind the poetic flow of the KJV. Although the best Vulgate translation ever in my mind is Knox which has quite wonderful flow.

 

-dan

Edited June 29, 2017 by Daniel Francis

[Brett K.]

It's funny that we don't know how much skill or expertise someone else has so we do the same thing they did and answer the question.

Before I asked the question, I looked at the informaton for the module. It gave the dates for the NT and OT. But I wondered if that was the original year of publishing or the version of the module itself. So I asked in the forums. Someone answered by telling me what the module dates said. :-)

In any case, thanks for the clarification.

[Davx999]

Douay Rheims or Challoner version

 

OK how to you tell which version you have of the Douay-Rheims

 

To test if it is the 1609 / 1582     

Gen 1:5  that made one day not just one day    

Psa  1:1  gone not walked    

Mat 2:1   Sages not wise men

 

 

Gen 1:     OT Part 1

5 And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.   Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version

 

(5) And he called the light, Day, and the darkness, Night: and there was evening & morning, that made one day. Reading of 1609 Version

 

 

Psa 1:1     OT Part 2

Blessed is the man who hath not walked in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stood in the way of sinners, nor sat in the chair of pestilence:   Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version

 

(1) BLESSED (a) is the man, that hath not gone in the counsel of the impious, & hath ( b ) not stood in the way of sinners, and hath (d) not sit in the chair of pestilence:  reading of 1609 Version

 

NT     

Mat 2:1  When Jesus therefore was born in Bethlehem of Juda, in the days of king Herod, behold, there came wise men from the East to Jerusalem,   Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version

 

Mat 2:1 (1) WHEN JESUS therefore was born in Bethlehem of Juda in the days of Herod the King, behold, there came Sages from the East to Jerusalem,      reading of 1582 Version

 

 

one test for each of the original volumes 

 

My first post here - signed up just so I could answer your question.. So what version is here? 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Davx999

[Mark Allison]

Thanks for posting Davx999! Based on your examples, the Accordance version is the Douay-Rheims-Challoner.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Mark Allison

[Alistair]

I think we've had this discussion before. To my knowledge, there is no e-text available of the "original" D-R that predates Challoner's butcherings revisions.

[Davx999]

Some ‘interesting’ links   [[ERROR - links are not working]]

 

Google  real douay rheims       

[[Download of a transliterated version   Hard copy available]]

 

What does 'transliterated' mean? 

In OLD ENGLISH the letter 's' looked like the letter 'f' but without the crossbar.  Dr. Peters retyped the text in modern type and updated some spellings.

 

Google  churchlatin.com    then add  /douayrheims.aspx

[[fax copy of - no text layer - at least on the copy I have from them years ago]]

Edited January 1, 2018 by Davx999

[ukfraser]

From above

http://www.churchlatin.com/douayrheims.aspx

 

On the REAL Douay-Rheim site, you are correct, I did find some ‘interesting’ statements, eg ‘From 1534 when Luther completed his corrupted Bible, which was followed by that of Wycliffe,’

 

Wycliffe predates Luther by almost 100 years. John Wyclif (c. 1320–84), Martin Luther (1483–1546), taken from atlas of european reformations in Accordance.

 

https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=European%20Reformations

Edited January 1, 2018 by ukfraser

[Alistair]

From above

http://www.churchlatin.com/douayrheims.aspx

 

On the REAL Douay-Rheim site, you are correct, I did find some ‘interesting’ statements, eg ‘From 1534 when Luther completed his corrupted Bible, which was followed by that of Wycliffe,’

 

Wycliffe predates Luther by almost 100 years. John Wyclif (c. 1320–84), Martin Luther (1483–1546), taken from atlas of european reformations in Accordance.

 

https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=European%20Reformations

 

 

That would make better sense if you substitute Tyndale for Wyclif. (Not that I agree with the sentiment expressed regarding corrupted Bibles).