tekton Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I would love to be able to search the words of Jesus! Is this possible? If not in a popular version, it could actually be in the original Greek. Not sure if this would be best as a module or a search feature... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 +1 Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Fyfe Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 The first thing I do is turn red letter off so not the best help There are two issues: 1. scholars can't always decide which are Jesus' words and which aren't (John 3 provides some confusion there for instance). so there will always be subjectivity. 2. Verses with Jesus' words are mixed with editorial comments such as 'he said', which makes a verse search. That said, you could make your own custom range (perhaps someone has done one and has/could upload it to the accordance exchange to this page), but it would still be imprecise because of both reasons above. It would be a lot of work, but once completed I'm sure others would be thankful for the search range if someone wanted to put it together. It would just mean clicking 'add selection to reference list tab' for all the red-letter-verses, and then copying those verses as a verse list, and creating a custom range. (You could refer to the similar custom range someone on the exchange has made for the Documentary hypothesis) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showens Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 -1 for the reasons Douglas mentions. You could only get close. Also, it would be problematic to rely on such a search for doctrine support. What if you get something that wasn't actually said by Jesus but is "red lettered"? How would you ever know for sure? Better to read everything, in context, and come to conclusions based on what's there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekton Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 -1 for the reasons Douglas mentions. You could only get close. Also, it would be problematic to rely on such a search for doctrine support. What if you get something that wasn't actually said by Jesus but is "red lettered"? How would you ever know for sure? Better to read everything, in context, and come to conclusions based on what's there. Hello showens, I can give you an excellent example of why this would be beneficial - even doctrinally. I wanted to know if our understanding of 'the gospel' is really what Jesus intended or if churchianity has watered it down at all. The first thing we have Jesus preaching is, “Repent! For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” That caused me to look up the frequency of 'kingdom'. I already have an excel spreadsheet with all the words of Jesus in the KJV categorized by frequency. So, I scanned down the list and found that 'kingdom' is the 60th entry, used 109 times, and is only surpassed by 6 other topical words in frequency (not counting 'the', 'and', 'of', etc). I won't get into the implications, but it's monumental! I understand a lack of precision, but accessing a rough idea of where He said what how much would be very helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekton Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 The first thing I do is turn red letter off so not the best help There are two issues: 1. scholars can't always decide which are Jesus' words and which aren't (John 3 provides some confusion there for instance). so there will always be subjectivity. 2. Verses with Jesus' words are mixed with editorial comments such as 'he said', which makes a verse search. That said, you could make your own custom range (perhaps someone has done one and has/could upload it to the accordance exchange to this page), but it would still be imprecise because of both reasons above. It would be a lot of work, but once completed I'm sure others would be thankful for the search range if someone wanted to put it together. It would just mean clicking 'add selection to reference list tab' for all the red-letter-verses, and then copying those verses as a verse list, and creating a custom range. (You could refer to the similar custom range someone on the exchange has made for the Documentary hypothesis) Thanks for the input, Douglas! +1 Greetings Fabian Greetings to you, Fabian! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showens Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) I can give you an excellent example of why this would be beneficial - even doctrinally. I wanted to know if our understanding of 'the gospel' is really what Jesus intended or if churchianity has watered it down at all. The first thing we have Jesus preaching is, “Repent! For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” That caused me to look up the frequency of 'kingdom'. I already have an excel spreadsheet with all the words of Jesus in the KJV categorized by frequency. So, I scanned down the list and found that 'kingdom' is the 60th entry, used 109 times, and is only surpassed by 6 other topical words in frequency (not counting 'the', 'and', 'of', etc). I won't get into the implications, but it's monumental! I understand a lack of precision, but accessing a rough idea of where He said what how much would be very helpful. I do get what you are trying to do. Best of luck with your quest! Edited November 11, 2017 by showens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarcher Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 One question that may be worth struggling through is the question of what significance do “red letter” verses have. Are they unique in some way that separates them from the rest of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekton Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 One question that may be worth struggling through is the question of what significance do “red letter” verses have. Are they unique in some way that separates them from the rest of Scripture. Absolutely! Are we allowed to use the Accordance forums to discuss doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 No! See the Forum Guidelines below. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekton Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 I thought as much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 The way I look at this is this is another tagging layer presented a little differently. Like TOPIC tags only with different data. We could tag a whole ton of different things in the text and make them searchable as such. The result will be as good as the tagging involved. As an example you can look at the morph tagging and you'll note that even there where things are comparatively straightforward that the tagging can be questioned. When this topic first came up I tried a couple of searches based around the idea of : Jesus <WITHIN x WORDS> [verbs of saying]. Naturally this won't get everything but it's that sort of thing and associated weeding that needs to be done to construct the red letter in the first place. And this is really where I would start with this one. That said I did find a post somewhere where someone had created a reference list of this sort of thing at one time. Don't know if it end up on the exchange or not. All that said, this would be a nice use case for user level tagging. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekton Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) The way I look at this is this is another tagging layer presented a little differently. Like TOPIC tags only with different data. We could tag a whole ton of different things in the text and make them searchable as such. The result will be as good as the tagging involved. As an example you can look at the morph tagging and you'll note that even there where things are comparatively straightforward that the tagging can be questioned. When this topic first came up I tried a couple of searches based around the idea of : Jesus <WITHIN x WORDS> [verbs of saying]. Naturally this won't get everything but it's that sort of thing and associated weeding that needs to be done to construct the red letter in the first place. And this is really where I would start with this one. That said I did find a post somewhere where someone had created a reference list of this sort of thing at one time. Don't know if it end up on the exchange or not. All that said, this would be a nice use case for user level tagging. Thx D Thanks, D! I'm new to Accordance, so ideas on where to start are much appreciated. Edited November 11, 2017 by tekton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Here is the post I think I recall about the reference list : https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/2995-searching-red-letter-and-italics-in-kjv/?hl=%2Bred+%2Bletter+%2Bsearch I have no idea whether the referred to links in it still work. thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Fyfe Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Hi Tekton, If you already have the list, I think the best solution is to get your list of verses and copy them into a new custom range, entitle it ‘red letter verses’ and off you go. From then on any search you do with that custom range will only search those verses. I guess it would take maybe an hour to go through and add each verse to a reference list which you could then copy as verses and paste in to the new custom range. I don’t have the time for this but if someone wanted to do so, I’m sure it could then be shared on the exchange for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 And maybe check this out : http://www.accordancefiles1.com/exchange/downloads/red_letter_references.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekton Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 Wow! Thanks so much! That works great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) You can download a free NT in Greek or whatever you want and with the help of the Workspace mentioned above you'll be able to do a User Bible. Change all [ ] and ( ) if there are ones to ‹ › . Best you copy it from here. And do the speech of Jesus in [ ]. Then import it as User Bible and now you'll be able to search only for (t)His words in Accordance. An Image of a free Bible with this feature. I get 9 hits in His words and 38 hits through the whole NT. Greetings Fabian Edited December 3, 2017 by Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 If you find a NY with red letters like the one I used then it would be much easier. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 There are two other options: Not so elegant like the one above but useful for every Bible. Make a Range Command: [RANGE Matthew 3:15; 4:4,7,10,17,19; 5:3-48; 6:1-34; 7:1-27; 8:3-4,7,10-13,20,22,26,32; 9:2,4-6,9,12-13,15-17,22,24,28-30,37-38; 10:5-42; 11:4-19,21-30; 12:3-8,11-13,25-37,39-45,48-50; 13:3-9,11-33,37-52,57; 14:16,18,27,29,31; 15:3-11,13-14,16-20,24,26,28,32,34; 16:2-4,6,8-11,13,15,17-19,23-28; 17:7,9,11-12,17,20,22-23,25-27; 18:3-10,12-20,22-35; 19:4-6,8-9,11-12,14,17-19,21,23-24,26,28-30; 20:1-16,18-19,21-23,25-28,32; 21:2-3,13,16,19,21-22,24-25,27-40,42-44; 22:2-14,18-21,29-32,37-40,42-45; 23:2-13,15-39; 24:2,4-51; 25:1-46; 26:2,10-13,18,21,23-29,31-32,34,36,38-42,45-46,50,52,53-56,64,75; 27:11,46; 28:9,10,18,19,20; Mk 1:15,17,25,38,41,44;2:5,8-11,14,17,19-22,25-28; 3:3-5,23-29,33-35; 4:3-9,11-32,35,39-40; 5:8-9,19,30-31,34,36,39,41; 6:4,10-11,31,37-38,50; 7:6-15,18-23,27,29,34;8:2-3,5,12,15,17-21,23,26-27,29,33-38; 9: 45,47-50;10:3,5-9,11-12,14-15,18-19,21,23-25,27,29-31,33-34,36,38-40,42-45,49,51-52; 11:2-3,14,17,22-25,29-30,33; 12:1-11,15-17,24-27,29-31,34-40,43-44; 13:2,5-37;14:6-9,13-15,18,20-22,24-25,27-28,30,32,34,36-38,41-42,48-49,62,72; 15:2,34;16:15-18; Luke 2:49; 4:4,8,12,18-19,21,23-27,35,43; 5:4,10,13-14,20,22-24,27,31-32,34-39; 6:3-5,8-10,20-49; 7:9,13-14,22-28,31-35,40-50; 8:5-8,10-18,21-22,25,30,39,45-46,48,50,52,54; 9:3-5,13-14,18,20,22-27,41,44,48,50,58-60,62; 10:2-16,18-24,26,28,30-37,41-42; 11:2-13,17-26,28-36,39-44,46-52; 12:1-40,42-59; 13:2-9,12,15-16,18-21,24-30,32-35; 14:3,5,8-14,16-24,26-35; 15:4-32; 16:1-13,15-31; 17:1-4,6-10,14,17-35,37; 18:2-8,10-14,16-20,22,24-25,27,29-33,41-42; 19:5,9-10,12-27,30-31,40,42-44,46; 20:3-4,8-18,24-25,34-38,41-44,46-47; 21:3-4,6,8-36; 22:8; 22:10-12; 22:15-22; 22:25-32; 22:34-38; 22:40; 22:42; 22:46; 22:48; 22:51-53; 22:61; 22:67-70; 23:3; 23:28-31; 23:34; 23:43; 23:46; 24:17; 24:19; 24:25-26; 24:36; 24:38-39; 24:41; 24:44; 24:46-49; John 1:38,39,42,43,47,48,50,51; 2:4,7-8,16,19; 3:3,5-8,3:10-21; 4:7,10,13-14,16-18,21-22,23-24,26,32,34-38,48,50,53; 5:6,8,11,14,17,19-47; 6:5,10,12,20,26-27,29,32-33,35-51,53-58,61-65,67,70; 7:6-8,16-19,21-24,28-29,33-34,36-38; 8:7,10-12,14-19,21-26,28-29,31-32,34-52,54-56,58; 9:3-5,7,11,35,37,39,41; 10:1-5,7-18,25-30,32,34-38; 11:4,7,9-11,14-15,23,25-26,34,39-44; 12:7-8,23-28,30-32,35-36,44-50; 13:7-8,10-21,26-27,31-36,38; 14:1-4,6-7,9-21,23-31; 15:1-27; 16:1-28,31,32,33; 17:1-26; 18:4-9,11,20-21,23,34,36-37; 19:11,26-28,30; 20:15-17,19,21-23,26-27,29; 21:5-6,10,12,15-19,22-23] For German and the European Notation: [RANGE Matthew 3,15; 4,4.7.10.17.19; 5,3-48; 6,1-34; 7,1-27; 8,3-4.7.10-13.20.22.26.32; 9,2.4-6.9.12-13.15-17.22.24.28-30.37-38; 10,5-42; 11,4-19.21-30; 12,3-8.11-13.25-37.39-45.48-50; 13,3-9.11-33.37-52.57; 14,16.18.27.29.31; 15,3-11.13-14.16-20.24.26.28.32.34; 16,2-4.6.8-11.13.15.17-19.23-28; 17,7.9.11-12.17.20.22-23.25-27; 18,3-10.12-20.22-35; 19,4-6.8-9.11-12.14.17-19.21.23-24.26.28-30; 20,1-16.18-19.21-23.25-28.32; 21,2-3.13.16.19.21-22.24-25.27-40.42-44; 22,2-14.18-21.29-32.37-40.42-45; 23,2-13.15-39; 24,2.4-51; 25,1-46; 26,2.10-13.18.21.23-29.31-32.34.36.38-42.45-46.50.52.53-56.64.75; 27,11.46; 28,9.10.18.19.20; Mk 1,15.17.25.38.41.44;2,5.8-11.14.17.19-22.25-28; 3,3-5.23-29.33-35; 4,3-9.11-32.35.39-40; 5,8-9.19.30-31.34.36.39.41; 6,4.10-11.31.37-38.50; 7,6-15.18-23.27.29.34;8,2-3.5.12.15.17-21.23.26-27.29.33-38; 9, 45.47-50;10,3.5-9.11-12.14-15.18-19.21.23-25.27.29-31.33-34.36.38-40.42-45.49.51-52; 11,2-3.14.17.22-25.29-30.33; 12,1-11.15-17.24-27.29-31.34-40.43-44; 13,2.5-37;14,6-9.13-15.18.20-22.24-25.27-28.30.32.34.36-38.41-42.48-49.62.72; 15,2.34;16,15-18; Luke 2,49; 4,4.8.12.18-19.21.23-27.35.43; 5,4.10.13-14.20.22-24.27.31-32.34-39; 6,3-5.8-10.20-49; 7,9.13-14.22-28.31-35.40-50; 8,5-8.10-18.21-22.25.30.39.45-46.48.50.52.54; 9,3-5.13-14.18.20.22-27.41.44.48.50.58-60.62; 10,2-16.18-24.26.28.30-37.41-42; 11,2-13.17-26.28-36.39-44.46-52; 12,1-40.42-59; 13,2-9.12.15-16.18-21.24-30.32-35; 14,3.5.8-14.16-24.26-35; 15,4-32; 16,1-13.15-31; 17,1-4.6-10.14.17-35.37; 18,2-8.10-14.16-20.22.24-25.27.29-33.41-42; 19,5.9-10.12-27.30-31.40.42-44.46; 20,3-4.8-18.24-25.34-38.41-44.46-47; 21,3-4.6.8-36; 22,8; 22,10-12; 22,15-22; 22,25-32; 22,34-38; 22,40; 22,42; 22,46; 22,48; 22,51-53; 22,61; 22,67-70; 23,3; 23,28-31; 23,34; 23,43; 23,46; 24,17; 24,19; 24,25-26; 24,36; 24,38-39; 24,41; 24,44; 24,46-49; John 1,38.39.42.43.47.48.50.51; 2,4.7-8.16.19; 3,3.5-8.3,10-21; 4,7.10.13-14.16-18.21-22.23-24.26.32.34-38.48.50.53; 5,6.8.11.14.17.19-47; 6,5.10.12.20.26-27.29.32-33.35-51.53-58.61-65.67.70; 7,6-8.16-19.21-24.28-29.33-34.36-38; 8,7.10-12.14-19.21-26.28-29.31-32.34-52.54-56.58; 9,3-5.7.11.35.37.39.41; 10,1-5.7-18.25-30.32.34-38; 11,4.7.9-11.14-15.23.25-26.34.39-44; 12,7-8.23-28.30-32.35-36.44-50; 13,7-8.10-21.26-27.31-36.38; 14,1-4.6-7.9-21.23-31; 15,1-27; 16,1-28.31.32.33; 17,1-26; 18,4-9.11.20-21.23.34.36-37; 19,11.26-28.30; 20,15-17.19.21-23.26-27.29; 21,5-6.10.12.15-19.22-23] Second you add this to the permanent Search Range if you click on the + next to the search bar. Then you are able to search only in this verses. Greetings Fabian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohleth Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Thanks Fabian. This is great. I am happy with this as is, but when I try to add this to a permanent range I get the error saying 'range should be less than 510 characters'. Accordance 10.4.5 this is. Any way around it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 If I’m correct there was a request (Daniel?) to bore it out and Accordance has done this in 11 or 11.x. I was able to save it with 12.x. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Hi Fabian, you have a good memory. Here's my original request, for the curious, https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/19046-new-bigger-ranges-thanx-and-a-couple-of-requests/?hl=%2Bsearch+%2Brange. thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Hello Daniel Thanks, unfortunately my brain doesn't work so good to memorize vocabularies:-) Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Maybe Accordance can add a feature to search only words in red. Greetings Fabian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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