Show multiple translations in parallel

[Ιακοβ]

Having now started to use the iOS app regularly, it is mostly a very convenient solutoin. Apart from my biggest iOS annoyance (when you want to switch resources the search box only allows you to search the recently used items, forcing a click back to the main library every time I want to switch reseources using a search-i.e. every day, I’m still not quite used to remembering that extra step) the next biggest annoyance is that I can’t use my iPad to ask “what does this verse look like in all of the other translations”.

 

I know a feature allowing extra panels would solve this, however I am not asking for a particular. Technological solution, all I am saying is, on my iPad, I frequently need to be able to ask the question “how is this verse translated in all of the other key translations”. Having to wait until I get back to a computer to do this is frustrating, as it means I have to suspend my reflection on a particular translational issue until later.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Ιακοβ

[R. Mansfield]

It's not the immediate solution you're looking for, but I've found the quickest way to compare versions is to put my most-used Bibles near the top of the Texts library. Then, tapping the version name at the top of the screen is a faster way to switch than going back to the Library to switch to a different version. Parallel panes will allow you to view two versions at a time and switch them from the top of both panes this way.

 

I realize I'm probably not telling you anything you haven't thought of. 

[Ιακοβ]

Thanks. On the desktop I normally can view about 10 translations at a time (my screen is not that large),  I think if I was flicking between translations I would not be able to flick through 10 translations and hold them all in my head at the same time so that I can compare the vocab for each translation.

 

I realise doing a comparison between a collection of translations of a particular verse is generally only an activity that someone who is doing either bible translation, or exegesis would conduct, but I imagine I am not the only person that does translation and exegesis work. (In fact I believe for people who can't read in the original languages, cross-comparing 10 translations will allow someone to quickly see if there are nuances in the original language that are difficult to translate)

Edited November 12, 2017 by Ιακοβ

[Ιακοβ]

Bump

[Timothy Jenney]

The real limitation is the size of the display on most iOS devices. Just how many columns can we add before the font size is just too small to read? I know the iOS tablets have more room, but the larger ones are close to the size of a small Mac laptop. At that point, we might just as well carry one of those around with us.

[Ιακοβ]

The real limitation is the size of the display on most iOS devices. Just how many columns can we add before the font size is just too small to read? I know the iOS tablets have more room, but the larger ones are close to the size of a small Mac laptop. At that point, we might just as well carry one of those around with us.

 

 

You'd be surprised how many versions of a verse can be displayed in one panel at a time. Even on a small screen. My greek lecturer used bible works to show at least 15 verses at a time in one single small panel in BibleWorks. On a phone, I imagine you could scroll up and down if need be, i.e.

 

 

And regarding your comment about iPad's and mac laptops, It is true that my iPad is almost the size of my MacBook. But, the iPad is still far more convenient to carry around. Accordance is one of the only reasons I still need to carry around the laptop in addition to my iPad. The sooner I don't need to carry around the laptop the better.  

Edited July 23, 2018 by Ιακοβ

[Timothy Jenney]

At this point, you're best bet is a Windows tablet then, since it will run the full version of Accordance.

 

BTW, Accordance for Mac and PC will show all those versions in a single pane, too. Use Live Click on a verse reference.

[ukfraser]

We will never be satisfied and you are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

Some developers have apps that are phone specific and also offer a tablet specific and they are decidedly different. Though that makes 4 with android and ios.

 

Some users like lots on the screen (but as you recommend, a windows tablet will give you this but at a weight premium truly defining a tablet), others are very happy with less.

 

The operating system is developing to provide new features but there are more older units still being used that are not being supported now.

 

Interesting times and interesting descisions to be made.

[Timothy Jenney]

[Chuckle] Very true.

 

Honestly, I'm going to guess and say that we are probably at the maximum number of platforms we can support. Our programmers can only do so much. The question is always, "Would our customers prefer improved features on the platforms we have? Or do they want us on more platforms?" That includes developing a separate app for the iOS tablet vs iPhone—or the iPad Pro vs the iPad.

 

I don't make these kinds of decisions at Accordance, but I can tell you we've had these kinds of discussions. I suspect we are at the point of diminishing returns regarding more platforms at this point.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Timothy Jenney

[R. Mansfield]

I'm going to guess and say that we are probably at the maximum number of platforms we can support.

 

Are you saying my hopes about a TRS-80 version of Accordance are in vain? 

 

My first computer was a TRS-80 Color Computer. Maybe it’s time to just move on...

[ukfraser]

but I can tell you we've had these kinds of discussions..

I never doubted it, and you will many many more times as each version of software for each platform is released with substantal new features.

 

My first computer was a bbc, programmes ran on cassette tape and pascal came on a chip i had to insert!!!!! Its still in the loft.

 

;o)

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Are you saying my hopes about a TRS-80 version of Accordance are in vain? 

 

My first computer was a TRS-80 Color Computer. Maybe it’s time to just move on...

 

I used to sell them when I was in high school but never owned one.

Now a ZX-81 or MicroBee (this will fish out the old Aussie's) port

[Ιακοβ]

Honestly, I'm going to guess and say that we are probably at the maximum number of platforms we can support. Our programmers can only do so much. The question is always, "Would our customers prefer improved features on the platforms we have? Or do they want us on more platforms?" That includes developing a separate app for the iOS tablet vs iPhone—or the iPad Pro vs the iPad.

 

I don't make these kinds of decisions at Accordance, but I can tell you we've had these kinds of discussions. I suspect we are at the point of diminishing returns regarding more platforms at this point.

 

 

Since we are guessing, I am imagining that its more of a business issue, i.e. is there a profitable business model that can sustain development of the iOS app.

 

I imagine the business question is: is there a business model that would raise revenue from the iOS application to fund its ongoing development—People don't like to pay for iOS apps after all. Personally, I would pay for the ability (on iOS) to be able to view bible verses in parallel and also to be able to do journal searches. But are there enough people that would? Perhaps we could have an iOS "lite" app, and a paid upgrade for a full featured version?

Edited July 23, 2018 by Ιακοβ

[Ιακοβ]

At this point, you're best bet is a Windows tablet then, since it will run the full version of Accordance.

 

Switching my family away from Windows has been one of the best IT decisions I made for our household, I don't plan to switch back any time soon. Prior to the switch (XP/Vista days) I was always being asked to help with something or fix something that wasn't working, once or twice per week at least. Post the switch, these types of questions don't seem to arise at all. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Ιακοβ

[ukfraser]

People don't like to pay for iOS apps after all. Personally, I would pay for the ability (on iOS)?

I certainly have a number of paid apps, but they are nominal, around the 15-25$ mark. (Though not too concerned about more translations open.)

 

Switching my family away from Windows has been one of the best IT decisions I made for our household

 

Agree! We got a mbp and my wife wanted a windows laptop as well, so we did but she didnt use it and it was passed on to my daughter instead and a second mbp was purchased. (Though i still have to maintain a desktop xp box for my film scanner.)

[Fabian]

E-sword for iPad (some also for iPhone) can https://www.e-sword.net/ipad/ https://www.e-sword.net/iphone/   see the Parallel and the Compare feature.

Also the Parallel tools (Gospel Harmony).

+ The Maps feature.

 

I know there also much other features which needs to implement.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

Edited July 24, 2018 by Fabian

[ukfraser]

I really appreciate all the other resorces that are available in accordance like the cultural image photolibrary, atlas of reformation and sacred bridge not to mention all the grammars and linked lexicons.

 

I principally us the ipad (daily) ever since i was given one and while i still use it as a book, my frustrations remain that for example

 

1) having a commentary or text or lexicon open in a single pane, to open a different commentary or resourceor lexicon, i have to go through recently open, library, reference or general etc and then find the commentary, rather than just select it from the list which i could do if it was a commentary open in a second pane with a text.

 

2) being limited to text and reference in two panes. Frequently i want to open two resources, ebc and ebc notes; two commentaries, a book or text and an atlas or picture library, a text and lexicon or dictionary or grammar.

 

Yes its a few clicks rather than getting up and going to a book case, but you cant have two open at the same time like you can with physical books ...

 

Im not convinced apps like e-sword Solution is as comprehensive as accordance but it shows what can be done. the paid for cultural study bible app was certainly one of my rubbish purchases as it is very poorly designed and has been totally unsupported with zero updates despite feedback from their support and i dont use it now as I cant search for what im looking for despite it still being installed.

 

Hopefully the next version of mobile accordance will have a redesigned interface making use of the new ios suported features.

And i accept that android still needs to catch up and has a larger base of units sold (donk know if they can easily swith non text resources). and we have welcomed bw users and the primary tool is still the full fat version, but I hope more are finding the benefits of tablets, despite their limitations in the operating systems.

 

I still enjoy accordance on ios and dont use anything else and rely on it despite my moaning. I also have some other fantastic paid for apps like foreScore which i couldnt have imagined 10 years ago and now totally rely on. Exciting times.

Edited July 24, 2018 by ukfraser

[Solly]

Hmm, I can envision a leather craftsman producing a very nice product that could hold two iPads side by side in a way that mimics the left and right page of a book. Since each device could provide two panes, this would give me a possible four. No, the "pages" would not be synced—but it might be fun to have this thing that gave the appearance of a nicely bound leather folio, but open to find a very nice modern text presenter with classic form factor within.

 

Then again, perhaps I need more morning coffee. :-)

 

Cheers,

 

—Joseph

[ukfraser]

Ps, i accept its not ideal and not what is being requested but using interlinear, you can get a flavour of how certain words are translated in tagged versions and use the second pane to flick through specific texts as suggested by rick.

Edited July 24, 2018 by ukfraser

[Ιακοβ]

This is actually quite an ingenious trick, I'll test it out. A cursory look at your screenshot suggests there might be some significant limitations of doing it this way.

 

There appears to be some weirdness about how tense is handled. (which is one of the things I am using the interlinear to look for at the moment), so the first thing I look for in verse 2 is how is "compassion" translated, and what translations are translating "I have compassion".

 

Strangely, the line for ESV doesn't show that ESV includes "have", and the line for  NIV-GKE shows "have", but doesn't show the noun (compassion). Although I wonder if it works better with Greek on the top. I'll test it out.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Ιακοβ

[Ιακοβ]

I have never really tried to use the interlinear before, I just tested it out. Either I don't understand what the interlinear is used for, or it just doesn't work. 

 

For example, I opened up to Mark 8:2 in UBS5-T (screenshot below)

1. Below the greek noun "Σπλαγχνίζομαι" sometimes we see the noun (compassion) without the helper word "have" that is expressing tense, and sometimes we see the helper word used to express tense (or in the case of NASB, we can see "feel" rather than "feel compassion").
2. 2ESVi contains a -- where the "the" would be, the ESV translation certainly does translate ὁ to "the" so why is it missing?

 

 

 

 

 

[Λύχνις Δαν]

The interlinear depends upon the tagging. If you check the key numbers on the words in the English translations you'll see how it holds together. The NIV with Enhanced phrase tagging probably does best here - compare with how it works on the desktop app with parallel panes and cross highlighting. The English translations sometimes tag one word or two for the verb σπλαγχνίζομαι.

 

In the ESVi τον is not tagged - nor in the NAS - so that is likely why it's not there.

 

Thx

D

[jlm]

As far as the value of investing in the iOS app goes, I can tell you that the app is the reason why I decided to buy Accordance (hoping also for some future improvements). BibleWorks gives me all I need on the desktop, and I expect it to keep working for at least a few years. The crossgrade offer opened the prospect of mobile access to serious tools, instead of the free/cheap texts I had been using. I considered Logos, but there was no way to get the Bible translation I use on mobile: they don't sell it, and don't sync user bibles to mobile devices.

 

I do miss BibleWorks's easy way of comparing translations. The Logos iOS app has a compare text feature, which shows the selected verse in all (many?) available versions and highlights words that differ from the selected version (the one that was being viewed when compare text was selected). Showing the same verse in multiple translations works on any screen size, because the list can be scrolled if the versions don't all fit on the screen.

 

I propose this: when a verse number is selected in the iOS app, there is already a popup menu (Copy Verse, Highlight Verse, etc.). Add to this menu "Compare Translations" or something similar. Selecting it opens a new view with a back button (like Amplify). This view displays the text of the verse from each Text in the library, in the order in which they're found there. For the initial implementation, don't highlight differences, just show the text of each version. That already gets us to the BibleWorks level.

 

Future improvements could be up and down buttons to change verse, and highlighting differences, at least in texts in the same language.