Jump to content


Photo

Male Gaze addressed


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 jkgayle

jkgayle

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:12 AM

It's interesting to read Matthew's Greek in light of #metoo --

27 Ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐρρέθη· Οὐ μοιχεύσεις. 28 ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πᾶς ὁ βλέπων γυναῖκα πρὸς τὸ ἐπιθυμῆσαι αὐτὴν ἤδη ἐμοίχευσεν αὐτὴν ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ αὐτοῦ. 29 εἰ δὲ ὁ ὀφθαλμός σου ὁ δεξιὸς σκανδαλίζει σε, ἔξελε αὐτὸν καὶ βάλε ἀπὸ σοῦ, συμφέρει γάρ σοι ἵνα ἀπόληται ἓν τῶν μελῶν σου καὶ μὴ ὅλον τὸ σῶμά σου βληθῇ εἰς γέενναν.30 καὶ εἰ ἡ δεξιά σου χεὶρ σκανδαλίζει σε, ἔκκοψον αὐτὴν καὶ βάλε ἀπὸ σοῦ, συμφέρει γάρ σοι ἵνα ἀπόληται ἓν τῶν μελῶν σου καὶ μὴ ὅλον τὸ σῶμά σου εἰς γέενναν ἀπέλθῃ.

There's a wordplay of violence, it seems. I'm going to translate it into English acknowledging the context of Jesus's interpreting Torah as written to the fathers:

“27 You have heard that the Patriarchy was told, ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that any guy with the Male Gaze, whether gawking at a woman or checking out a girl, is committing adultery in his heart, has already done the deed. 29 If your looking eye makes you sin so profoundly, sir, then just gouge it out and flush it down the toilet! Better that you lose just one of your body parts than to have your whole body thrown into Hell. 30 And if your feely hand makes you sin with such impropriety, my man, then cut it off too, and drop it in the dumpster! Better you lose a critical body part than have your whole body thrown into Hell."


  • Abram K-J likes this

#2 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Mithril

  • Accordance
  • 2,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a great cup of coffee, sci-fi, jazz and the blues, kayaking, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 10 January 2018 - 12:52 PM

Is it just men who are subject to sexual temptation? Or can a woman lust as well?

 

We've gone to great lengths lately to make sure the Bible's plural masculine forms are understood as relating to the entire Body of Christ, both male and female. It seems to me that a gender neutral translation would be appropriate here, too. The result would be more inclusive and thus less gender-biased.


  • Daniel Francis, Randy Cue and jkgayle like this

Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer
Academic Licensing Assistant

iMac: Late 2014 27" 5k display, 4.0 GHz quad core i7, 24 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB, macOS Sierra 10.13
MBP: Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz quad core i7, 16 GB RAM, 480 SSD + 1 TB SSD, AMD Radeon HD 6750M, macOS Sierra 10.13
iPhone 7 plus: 128 GB, iOS 11.x


#3 Daniel Francis

Daniel Francis

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,729 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alberta, Canada
  • Interests:Contemplative prayer, ecological stewardship, science-fiction, and cat herding are some of my interests.
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 10 January 2018 - 01:11 PM

I agree Tim, while men may seem more lustful, the male gender doesn't hold lust as its own possession. Indeed i have had an opportunity to talk to a male striper once who told me he preferred stripping for gay men who were actually far better behaved than females. That is not scientific of course but just one person's experience.

 

-dan



#4 Fabian

Fabian

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,963 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 10 January 2018 - 02:29 PM

Is it just men who are subject to sexual temptation? Or can a woman lust as well?

 

We've gone to great lengths lately to make sure the Bible's plural masculine forms are understood as relating to the entire Body of Christ, both male and female. It seems to me that a gender neutral translation would be appropriate here, too. The result would be more inclusive and thus less gender-biased.

It depends on the translation:-)

 

The inclusive Bible: 28 But I tell you that those who look lustfully at others have already committed adultery with them in their hearts.

 

Bibel in Gerechter Sprache: 28Ich lege euch das heute so aus: Wenn jemand eine Frau durch seinen begehrlichen Blick erniedrigt, hat er in seinem °Herzen mit ihr schon die Ehe gebrochen.

 

For the German translators it is only if you looking to a woman. But it doesn't say if the doer is a man or a woman:-) 

 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 10 January 2018 - 02:37 PM.

  • jkgayle likes this
Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#5 jkgayle

jkgayle

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:09 AM

When I posted my non-gender-inclusive translation on fb, a friend replied objecting further that it really needed to specify, more, that this was to males but only in their marriages:

 

I tend to view γυνή as meaning “wife” since under the Mosaic Covenant adultery depended on the woman’s marital status. A married man having sex with an unmarried or unbetrothed woman was not committing adultery, and vice-versa, because she didn’t belong to someone else. So I think these verses has been misunderstood to condemn males for having normal sexual attraction to women. I.e., being aroused by a woman and wanting to take/have her sexually (covet/lust for/desire also being the same word) is not adultery, even in one’s “heart,” unless she belongs to another male.


  • Timothy Jenney likes this

#6 jkgayle

jkgayle

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:12 AM

We in the 21st century live in a male superior and male dominated world. I translate anachronistically. And so what does Matthew's Greek portend here? 

I think we all know of stories of women abusing boys, and men, and even girls sexually. We can easily imagine the "female gaze," where men are whistled at and gawked at and lusted over as sexual objects.

And yet that is certainly a weird and marked phenomenon in comparison to what men to do women regularly and almost naturally and seemingly instinctively.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users