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Septuagint LXX Brenton

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#1 dpotgeter

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 01:08 PM

Hi,

 

I recently purchased Rahlf's LXX, and I noticed a difference in Deuteronomy 32:43, between it and Brenton's LXX. It looks like they flip flop "aggeloi" and "uioi". I'm wondering if this is a textual variant, or if this is a mistake here (if it is a mistake which one is correct?). On another note, what are the differences between Brenton's LXX and Rahlf's LXX?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

 

-Doug



#2 Helen Brown

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 03:34 PM

Brenton is English, so it's not clear which texts you are comparing.

 

I do see that Swete agrees with Rahlf's, and so does the text of Goettingen. I am not skilled enough to decipher the Goettingen Apparatus but Swete seems to suggest a variant in Codex Ambrosianus.


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#3 R. Mansfield

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 04:16 PM

Doug, as Helen mentioned, we only carry Brenton's English translation of the LXX. I know that he also had a Greek text in parallel in some editions, but I'm not familiar with it and don't know if it was a text he edited or if he used another source. 

 

Helen mentioned the variant referred to in Swete's apparatus. Here is the Göttingen apparatus entry for Deut 32:43. As you can see here, there is much greater support for υἱοί than αγγελοι.

 

Screen%20Shot%202018-01-30%20at%204.09.5

 

 

And please don't read this as an attempt on my part to make a "hard sale" (!), but if you're really interested in LXX studies, at some point, you will want to invest in the Göttingen LXX


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#4 dpotgeter

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:53 PM

Thank you so much for the comments!

 

You (Rick) mentioned that "there is much greater support for υἱοί than αγγελοι." which I could see in that helpful picture you sent. I'm a little confused by this though, because when part of this verse is quoted in Hebrews 1:6b, the word is αγγελοι. If υἱοί is correct, why would Hebrews 1:6b have αγγελοι?

  



#5 dpotgeter

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:19 PM

Also, in comparing Hebrews 10:5 "but a body hast thou prepared me" with Rahlf's LXX, it appears to be missing. However, the LXX used by Brenton contains it. It's claimed that all the OT references in the book of Hebrews come directly from the Septuagint, but now I'm not so sure.

 

Again, thank you for any guidance you can offer on this! 



#6 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:38 PM

Ps 39.7 is curiously close. It would be interesting to see if there are known variants here.

 

Ok so here is something interesting  from the Codex Sinaiticus.

 

Psa. 40:7  (Sin. 39:7) θυϲιαν και προϲφοραν ουκ ηθεληϲαϲ
 ϲωμα δε κατηρτιϲω μοι
 ολοκαυτωμα και περι αμαρτιαϲ
 ουκ εζητηϲαϲ
 
Compare Rahlfs :
 
Psa. 39:7 θυσίαν καὶ προσφορὰν οὐκ ἠθέλησας, 
ὠτία δὲ κατηρτίσω μοι· 
ὁλοκαύτωμα καὶ περὶ ἁμαρτίας οὐκ ᾔτησας. 
 
Thx
D

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"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

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#7 dpotgeter

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 09:13 AM

That is interesting. Any idea on why there is a difference? If the verses in Hebrews 10 are supposedly direct quotes, then wouldn't that mean Rahlf's is inaccurate?



#8 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 09:47 AM

Where this comes from is text crits.' domain. Again you would need a decent apparatus. There is something kicking around in German in PDF if I recall which isn't really a full apparatus for Rahlfs - used it once for something. But really I think Goettingen is what you'll want. I don't have it so cannot check.

Thx
D

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

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#9 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 10:17 AM

Ok so I found the PDF of Rahlf's notes on the Psalms which is what the thing I mentioned vaguely above is. There is a note on this variant as it turns out. So Rahlf knew about it. I cannot cut and paste satisfactorily but here is an image.

 

Note that the comment on verse 7 is split up across two pages starting top right of this image and concluding bottom left.

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   178.72KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
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#10 dpotgeter

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

Thank you so much! That is very helpful!



#11 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:01 AM

One final thing - I checked the MT-LXX and the Hebrew (HMT-W4 at least) for this Psalm says אָ֭זְנַיִם - ears.

Not sure what to make of all of that but figured I would toss it in.

 

Thx

D
 


Edited by דָנִיאֶל, 01 February 2018 - 11:10 AM.

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1






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