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Questions on First MacBook?


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#1 DoosanMan

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:22 PM

I've been thinking about getting another laptop.   I have a Chromebook now, and if I could run Accordance on it that would be a big bonus.   I've always had Windows machines, but wouldn't mind trying a different OS.  I have an Ipad and also have had iPhones.

 

What about the MacBook 11 laptops with the i5 processor?   Does that screen size work well with Accordance?  I currently have it on a couple of Windows computers with 24" monitors so I am wondering?   This would be a used laptop.

 

If I go new or almost new what is the main difference between the Macbook and Macbook Air?   What does retina display do?  Does it make it much easier to read?



#2 Michael Hunt

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:06 PM

Smaller screen sizes can be made to work with Accordance but it does result in some compromises. On my 13 inch MacBook Pro 2012 (non-retina) I can comfortably fit 4 panes side by side if I get rid of the library pane. More screen space can be gained by hiding the toolbar and reducing the size of instant details (or hiding it all together). By making judicious use of tabs you can make quite a comprehensive workspace that allows you to compare multiple tools that can be designed around your workflow.

 

Below is my sermon workspace I designed for when I am out and about with my MacBook Pro.

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2018-04-03 at 1.07.44 pm.png   534.39KB   1 downloads

 

One downside I have found is that you will do a fair bit of scrolling, but you can always switch to reading mode. Depending on the font you use and spacing you can reduce this. Recently I have had to make changes to my font setup to reduce eye strain for longer study periods.

 

On MacBook Air v's MacBook a lot will come down to budget. The MacBook has more potential for upgrades to RAM and you can also replace the HDD with an SSD (highly recommended). The MacBook Air is not really at all upgradeable.

 

Retina-enabled displays are nice and it would be hard to go back to a non-retina display after using a retina display for any time. You would also most likely be able to squeeze more on to the display.

 

Remember you can always attach it to one of your other monitors if the machine is going to be predominately stationary rather than mobile.


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#3 Fabian

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 01:48 AM

Hello DoosanMan

 

Just I'm curious. Do you have tested https://www.accordan...e-os/?hl=chrome? If you have please share your experience. 

 

Some of my preferences you see in my signature.

 

I think the MacBook is from the power and visual experience because of the Retina display a good choice. But I don't believe you'll be happy with the small screen. For me I consider to go next time to a 15" MacBook Pro. But I must say I avoid to work with the multiple workspaces which are possible on Mac. If you will use this feature a lot then a smaller screen don't have to be a no go. You can open more than one Accordance workspaces too.

 

 

The new 15" MacBook Pro is not really bigger than my 13" MacAir, because the frame around the screen is much smaller.

 

For the eyes a Retina display is much more convenient. The sharpness helps to not get tired, because the brain hadn't work so much.

 

I need a new Mac too. But as you can see on https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac I wait till the new update is out, probably in June, or one later in end to the year or next year.


Edited by Fabian, 03 April 2018 - 01:48 AM.

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#4 ukfraser

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 04:00 AM

Do you have a store you can go into? I like to see and feel things first before I buy.

As others have said retina screens are brilliant. Very clear and crisp text and images. But it’s just Apple speak for higher resolution than their initial range, see actual dpi or screen resolution and it comparable with windows laptops these days. (What ipad do you have, that may well have a retina screen?). For me the keyboard and track pad are better than any windows box I have used and I don’t use a mouse when working on a mbp compared to a windows box where I really struggle to use them without a mouse.

Performance, Accordance still runs very fast on my old mbp which is about 10 years old now. (But I have a new lighter 15” mbp ready for when it finally dies). So it will depend on what else you are planning to use but i5 should be ok unless you are planning to use a intensive piece of software.

I like big screens so tend to go for 15” for a workspace similar to michael though when reading commentaries I tend to just have text and commentary up to cut down on scrolling as it’s easy to switch resources. But I do tend to do most of my work on an iPad now and use the the full version for analytics or those bits not available on iOS.

It so depends on what you want to use it for, lots of travelling (smaller may be better) , mainly using on your lap (15” screen may be better) or mainly using on your desk (consider a full screen Mac?) supported by your chrome for travelling.

Edited by ukfraser, 03 April 2018 - 04:58 AM.

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Accordance 2x iOS 12x on iPad pro and iPhone 8, occasionally accordance 12x on Mountain Lion on a reliable '08 mbp.
Other life enhancing software I use includes: forScore with AirTurn page turner for leading all aspects of a service from my iPad including liturgy, sermon and the congregational singing; HymnQuest for developing my selection of appropriate music for the service; Sibelius for preparing the music scores; Lightroom for my photo library!

#5 ukfraser

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:04 AM

Ps, your mac book will hook up to your existing external 24” monitorthough you will need a converter to whatever type of connector you monitor has.
Fraser Sims
Accordance 2x iOS 12x on iPad pro and iPhone 8, occasionally accordance 12x on Mountain Lion on a reliable '08 mbp.
Other life enhancing software I use includes: forScore with AirTurn page turner for leading all aspects of a service from my iPad including liturgy, sermon and the congregational singing; HymnQuest for developing my selection of appropriate music for the service; Sibelius for preparing the music scores; Lightroom for my photo library!

#6 DoosanMan

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:19 AM

Hello DoosanMan

 

Just I'm curious. Do you have tested https://www.accordan...e-os/?hl=chrome? If you have please share your experience. 

 

Some of my preferences you see in my signature.

 

I think the MacBook is from the power and visual experience because of the Retina display a good choice. But I don't believe you'll be happy with the small screen. For me I consider to go next time to a 15" MacBook Pro. But I must say I avoid to work with the multiple workspaces which are possible on Mac. If you will use this feature a lot then a smaller screen don't have to be a no go. You can open more than one Accordance workspaces too.

 

 

The new 15" MacBook Pro is not really bigger than my 13" MacAir, because the frame around the screen is much smaller.

 

For the eyes a Retina display is much more convenient. The sharpness helps to not get tired, because the brain hadn't work so much.

 

I need a new Mac too. But as you can see on https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac I wait till the new update is out, probably in June, or one later in end to the year or next year.

Yes, I have an Intel based Chromebook and love it mostly.   I did try the codeweavers on Swordsearcher and could not get it to work.   Have you successfully used it?   What I end up doing now is doing a remote desktop back to a computer with my Bible software on it, it isn't the most convenient.  

 

Do you have a store you can go into? I like to see and feel things first before I buy.

As others have said retina screens are brilliant. Very clear and crisp text and images. But it’s just Apple speak for higher resolution than their initial range, see actual dpi or screen resolution and it comparable with windows laptops these days. (What ipad do you have, that may well have a retina screen?). For me the keyboard and track pad are better than any windows box I have used and I don’t use a mouse when working on a mbp compared to a windows box where I really struggle to use them without a mouse.

Performance, Accordance still runs very fast on my old mbp which is about 10 years old now. (But I have a new lighter 15” mbp ready for when it finally dies). So it will depend on what else you are planning to use but i5 should be ok unless you are planning to use a intensive piece of software.

I like big screens so tend to go for 15” for a workspace similar to michael though when reading commentaries I tend to just have text and commentary up to cut down on scrolling as it’s easy to switch resources. But I do tend to do most of my work on an iPad now and use the the full version for analytics or those bits not available on iOS.

It so depends on what you want to use it for, lots of travelling (smaller may be better) , mainly using on your lap (15” screen may be better) or mainly using on your desk (consider a full screen Mac?) supported by your chrome for travelling.

I have a regular Ipad mini for my Ipad


Edited by DoosanMan, 03 April 2018 - 05:27 AM.


#7 ukfraser

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:38 AM

Thanks, Depending on when you got it, from 2nd version (about October 2013) the mini has had a Retina display of 2048x1536 resolution at 326 pixels per inch (ppi) so that will give you a feel for Mac books.

Larger screens will have more pixels but the average pixels per inch will roughly remain the same for retina displays but you won’t be quite as close to them so sharpness should be about the same. Looking at the tech specs they are about 200 ppi.

But try to get to a store and look at them with some of the built in apps. There really is no substitute for picking something up and seeing how you interact with it.

Edited by ukfraser, 03 April 2018 - 05:51 AM.

Fraser Sims
Accordance 2x iOS 12x on iPad pro and iPhone 8, occasionally accordance 12x on Mountain Lion on a reliable '08 mbp.
Other life enhancing software I use includes: forScore with AirTurn page turner for leading all aspects of a service from my iPad including liturgy, sermon and the congregational singing; HymnQuest for developing my selection of appropriate music for the service; Sibelius for preparing the music scores; Lightroom for my photo library!

#8 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:47 AM

Hi,

 

I would first ask how much RAM you need. If you want to run Windows in a VM, I think you need 16 GB. I tried running Windows on my 8 GB Mac mini, experimenting with 2 - 4 GB allocated to the VM, but it wasn't enough, and neither was the remaining RAM enough to run my Mac programs. So if you need 16 GB, a MacBook Air is already out.

 

If you can live with 8 GB, there is the option to get a MacBook Air and connect your iPad to it with Duet Display (https://www.duetdisplay.com) or the coming wireless Luna Display (https://lunadisplay....osted_preorders). It all depends on your workflow.

 

I got my first (used) MacBook a few years ago, and I can say that I was so excited and impressed with the OSX that I didn't even notice that it didn't have retina display. It had 1280x800.

 

I can also say that used, refurbished, or new are all good ways to go. You can upgrade some of the older MacBooks. Some of the newer ones have RAM soldered to the board. Just check online before you buy.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


  


#9 Michael Hunt

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 03:35 PM

I have had my MacBookPro 2012 now for 5 years that I bought refurbished from the Apple store. I have since upgraded the RAM to 16GB and put in a 500GB SSD.
Attaching it to a 27 inch monitor via a dongle and adding a keyboard and mouse has given me a very good setup. My only wish now would be a laptop stand to rise the MacBook screen so I can make more use of it. I have no plans to upgrade to a new machine for another 2 years and I suspect the machine would still be quite useanle even beyond that time frame.
I have only noticed the difference retina brings because my daughter needed a laptop for high school. On of our church members works for private school that upgrades their Mac's every two years. He was able to get her a MacBook Air 2015 with Retina display. While setting it up side by side with my MacBookPro the difference was stark. So much so that if I was buying now I hands down would go for a Retina display or a non Retina. One good thing it did was push me over the line and upgrade to an SSD. So glad I did. The difference is even more stark that of the Retina displays.
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#10 Mark Allison

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 03:38 PM

Yes, upgrading to an SSD gives you the same performance enhancement as upgrading from dual floppies to a hard drive (if you're old enough to remember how amazing that was :-)

 

*Well, maybe not QUITE the same, but close!


Edited by Mark Allison, 03 April 2018 - 03:39 PM.

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#11 Michael Hunt

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 03:45 PM

Or if you had a Commodore64 as a kid the difference is as stark as adding a floppy drive V's sticking with cassette.

Some 80's nostalgia happening right at the moment. Where did I put my Choirboys mixtape.

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#12 Nathan Parker

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:39 PM

I've ran Accordance on smaller screens OK (Accordance ran better than Logos did on a smaller screen), although now I have a 27" iMac Pro. :-)

 

Retina display is worth the extra price. After switching from my non Retina iMac to my Retina iMac Pro, I can't believe I ever used a computer without a Retina display. It'll make Accordance "pop".

 

You'll also definitely want a SSD. World of difference in performance. If you're only using Accordance and some day to day productivity apps, 8GB of RAM will be decent (since Accordance is fast), although if you can get 16GB on your Mac, I'd recommend it. You'll run very comfortably on 16GB.

 

In terms of Windows vs Mac, I prefer Macs. Tried Windows and I just "wasn't compatible". I love the overall feel of macOS, and Accordance runs at its best on it (even though it runs great on Windows).


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#13 DoosanMan

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:46 PM

I've got a couple more questions........I'm thinking now of replacing my old Windows box in my home office with a MacBook.   I would like to have it plug into my existing large monitor and keyboard, and then be able to take it with me when I leave on trips.

 

1. Is there a special dock for Macbooks?

2. I have a couple Windows softwares including SwordSearcher I still want to run.   What is the best way to run these?  I've heard that Macs come with bootcamp, but I don't want to reboot.   So what about Parallels and VMware?  Which one would be the best fit?  Do they come on a Macbook?  Do I have to purchase one of them?

 

Thank you!



#14 EricC

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:06 PM


2. I have a couple Windows softwares including SwordSearcher I still want to run.   What is the best way to run these?  I've heard that Macs come with bootcamp, but I don't want to reboot.   So what about Parallels and VMware?  Which one would be the best fit?  Do they come on a Macbook?  Do I have to purchase one of them?

 

 

I use (primarily) a MBP to run Accordance. I run SwordSearcher almost every day via www.virtualbox.org's free virtual machine app (an option besides Parallels and VMware). You have buy Windows to do this, but once you get it all set up, it works great and everything works. I've tried CrossOver (another option), but it always felt clunky and left features inaccessible. At one time (way back) I tried VMware, but I also didn't find it as robust as VirtualBox. There is a learning curve to VB, but I've found the folks on the forum very helpful (https://forums.virtualbox.org/).

 

FWIW.


Edited by EricC, 09 April 2018 - 01:10 PM.


#15 DoosanMan

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:57 PM

 

 

I use (primarily) a MBP to run Accordance. I run SwordSearcher almost every day via www.virtualbox.org's free virtual machine app (an option besides Parallels and VMware). You have buy Windows to do this, but once you get it all set up, it works great and everything works. I've tried CrossOver (another option), but it always felt clunky and left features inaccessible. At one time (way back) I tried VMware, but I also didn't find it as robust as VirtualBox. There is a learning curve to VB, but I've found the folks on the forum very helpful (https://forums.virtualbox.org/).

 

FWIW.

 

 

Thanks!  What does Windows run in cost normally for something like this?



#16 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:12 PM

Hi DoosanMan,

 

Again, I would strongly recommend 16 GB RAM for a VM if you could afford it. There are trial versions of Parallels Desktop and VMware Fusion. I tried them, and they worked about the same. I chose VMware out of loyalty - I still use their free version in Linux, so I thought I should buy their product instead of Parallels. I would have tried VirtualBox, but I couldn't get it to work in High Sierra. Perhaps it works well now. I'm not sure if VB has integration features like Parallels and VM, that is, clicking on icons in the menu bar as if they were Mac programs. Eric would know. And perhaps you don't need that anyways. Windows 10 is about 119 in the USA.

 

I recommend Windows in a virtual machine. Then you can work on something else if it is updating, etc.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


  


#17 EricC

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:54 PM


I would have tried VirtualBox, but I couldn't get it to work in High Sierra. Perhaps it works well now. I'm not sure if VB has integration features like Parallels and VM, that is, clicking on icons in the menu bar as if they were Mac programs. Eric would know. And perhaps you don't need that anyways. Windows 10 is about 119 in the USA.

 

I recommend Windows in a virtual machine. Then you can work on something else if it is updating, etc.

 

 

I am running VB on El Capitan, so there may indeed be a problem with High Sierra. But I think the forums would clear any of that doubt up. They usually make sure the last version of VB works with the last version of Mac OS.

 

As for "clicking the icons in the menu bar as if they were Mac programs," I think what he might mean is "seamless mode." VB just works for me, maybe there's something I'm missing of which I'm unaware. :)

 

Windows to me seems far more stable on a Mac inside a Virtual machine than in a Windows box. But … I do very little with the internet from the Win side. Accordance and Logos and some other programs do access the internet from within the VM, but I don't do any e-mail from that side, and I hardly ever use the web browser on the Windows side. (I do have Firefox installed on the Win side so I don't get forced to use Edge, which I have never been able to get my mind around.)

 

I had to look around on the web to find a legal copy of Windows 10 to buy for a reasonable price. I think Michel's mentioned price of US$119 is reasonable. You may do almost as well in a physical store, though.


Edited by EricC, 09 April 2018 - 03:01 PM.


#18 ukfraser

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 04:19 PM

I find windows is actually a lot faster booting up on vmware than on a dedicated windows box.

You can get adapters to plug in your monitor (I have ones for both vga and hdmi)

I plug in a usb keyboard and then plug a mouse into that as it has two USB ports, good old apple design so can also plug in external drive. Though I only plug that in when I need a number pad when working in sibelius or doing detailed curves work in lightroom or photoshop. In most cases i have moved away from plugging into large monitor as keyboard and trackpad are great.

I assume this is all thunderball, thunderbolt and lightning these days and keyboards are also cableless so in reality, you won’t miss the docking station.

There isn’t a dock similar to windows office laptops such as Lenovo do, but I didn’t like those later ones I had at work anyway.

Edited by ukfraser, 09 April 2018 - 05:16 PM.

Fraser Sims
Accordance 2x iOS 12x on iPad pro and iPhone 8, occasionally accordance 12x on Mountain Lion on a reliable '08 mbp.
Other life enhancing software I use includes: forScore with AirTurn page turner for leading all aspects of a service from my iPad including liturgy, sermon and the congregational singing; HymnQuest for developing my selection of appropriate music for the service; Sibelius for preparing the music scores; Lightroom for my photo library!

#19 Nathan Parker

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 09:21 PM

I'm not sure what SwordSwitcher does that Accordance doesn't since I don't use it.

 

In terms of Windows apps on Mac, the handful off apps I run now that are Windows only run comfortably enough on WINE or CrossOver (in fact the apps I use come in pre-botted WINE or CrossOver versions), so I've been able to avoid Windows completely.

 

In the past when running Windows on a Mac, Boot Camp was a pain since Apple stalled on releasing new drivers after Windows updates. VirtualBox always performed clunkily for me. VMWare ran well, but Parallels offered better performance and overall better Mac integration. Parallels was solid for me and what I'd use again if I needed to run Windows on a Mac, but right now, I've been able to avoid installing Windows.


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