searching accross multiple texts

[miketisdell]

How can I do a search for corresponding terms in different texts i.e. something like  "ποιέω (NA28) <AND> עשה (BHS) <AND> (make* <OR> made (ESV)) <AND> עבד (Peshitta OT)"?

[Joel Brown]

Mike, what are you trying to accomplish in the search?  There are no verses in common between the NA28 and BHS, so what result would you expect with "ποιέω (NA28) עשה (BHS)"?

[miketisdell]

Mike, what are you trying to accomplish in the search?  There are no verses in common between the NA28 and BHS, so what result would you expect with "ποιέω (NA28) <AND> עשה (BHS)"?

 

I normally have my Greek set to NA28+LXX Rahlfs, and let my fingers type a little faster than the brain was thinking, sorry. Substitute NA28 with the LXX Rahlfs to understand what I am after. This is just an example of what I would like to be able to do i.e. searching across multiple versions in a way similar to this. I just created a quick example of this search in bible works, and I am attaching a screen shot. I would like to be able to do the equivalent search in Accordance.

 

I also understand that I should be able to do a lot better cross searches between the Hebrew and LXX with the MT-LXX parallel module (which I have), and would like to understand how to construct searches that take advantage of this module.

 

 

NOTE: I am new to Accordance, and don't have a lot of background on how to do searches (beyond what I found in the podcasts) and those examples don't deal with cross text searches.

[miketisdell]

I normally have my Greek set to NA28+LXX Rahlfs, and let my fingers type a little faster than the brain was thinking, sorry. Substitute NA28 with the LXX Rahlfs to understand what I am after. This is just an example of what I would like to be able to do i.e. searching across multiple versions in a way similar to this. I just created a quick example of this search in bible works, and I am attaching a screen shot. I would like to be able to do the equivalent search in Accordance.

 

I also understand that I should be able to do a lot better cross searches between the Hebrew and LXX with the MT-LXX parallel module (which I have), and would like to understand how to construct searches that take advantage of this module.

 

 

NOTE: I am new to Accordance, and don't have a lot of background on how to do searches (beyond what I found in the podcasts) and those examples don't deal with cross text searches.

 

 

Just for clarity, I have included one example of a verse returned that meets this criteria (there were 77 verses returned).

[Joel Brown]

Thanks for the clarification!  What you are asking for has two different ways of thinking about it.  Do you want all words that satisfy those conditions exactly, or just the verses containing the overlapping matches?

 

The former is a difficult problem that requires someone (or something) aligning each word in one text with a word in the other texts.  While this has been done for the MT-LXX and Strong's texts, it has not been done (at least in Accordance) for the Peshitta.  Plus, even with the work done, its a somewhat imprecise search due to language differences.  I'm not sure if that's what the Bibleworks search is doing, but the implication to me is that it is not matching words exactly.

 

For the latter, this is possible in Accordance, you'll just need to set up multiple tabs.  Open each of the resources in separate tabs and run their searches (e.g. open an LXX tab and search for ποιέω, a BHS for עשה, a PESHOT for עבד, ESV for make* OR made, etc.).  Then make a new tab and combine the results using the [CONTENTS] and commands. You can also tie the tabs together, so as you peruse through the results, you'll see the hits in each of the source tabs.

 

See the attached picture and workspace for the final result (143 verses)!

 

Linked Text Search.accord

[miketisdell]

Thanks for the clarification!  What you are asking for has two different ways of thinking about it.  Do you want all words that satisfy those conditions exactly, or just the verses containing the overlapping matches?

 

The former is a difficult problem that requires someone (or something) aligning each word in one text with a word in the other texts.  While this has been done for the MT-LXX and Strong's texts, it has not been done (at least in Accordance) for the Peshitta.  Plus, even with the work done, its a somewhat imprecise search due to language differences.  I'm not sure if that's what the Bibleworks search is doing, but the implication to me is that it is not matching words exactly.

 

For the latter, this is possible in Accordance, you'll just need to set up multiple tabs.  Open each of the resources in separate tabs and run their searches (e.g. open an LXX tab and search for ποιέω, a BHS for עשה, a PESHOT for עבד, ESV for make* OR made, etc.).  Then make a new tab and combine the results using the [CONTENTS] and <AND> commands. You can also tie the tabs together, so as you peruse through the results, you'll see the hits in each of the source tabs.

 

See the attached picture and workspace for the final result (143 verses)!

 

Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 4.21.55 PM.pngLinked Text Search.accord

 

I am actually interested in both types of searches, and I understand that aligned searches require a DB like the MT-LXX. Bibleworks does searches like those in your example, and so you always have to check the results to eliminate false matches.

 

I would also like to understand how to use the MT-LXX module for aligned searches.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Check out https://www.accordancebible.com/content/common/common.download_file.php?action_special=download_file&sid=fb28e848f2caf672635b6889e133c3f1&download_file_path=files/documents/117468.pdf&download_file_title=MT-LXX+Parallel+Manual.pdf

 

I was looking for a podcast but I cannot see one. I thought one was done. There is one on the interlinear https://www.accordancebible.com/resources/multimedia/details/?id=153529

 

Thx

D

[miketisdell]

I took a look at the manual Daniel posted, but still haven't figure this out. Here is an example of a search I would like to perform using the MT-LXX exact match.

 

Search the Hebrew text for occurrences of יהוה where the translation in the LXX is not κύριος (or absent) i.e. like when יהוה אלהים is translated as only θεος.

 

 

=============================================================================

 

 

NOTE: the information for the overlapping search above was exactly what I was looking for! Works great!

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Ok what you need is the MERGE command and a workspace set up to make this a little more straightforward. Here is the workspace I use for stuff like this. I saved it with the query you want in it.

 

Thx

D

MTLXX.accord.zip

[Joel Brown]

For the alignment searches, you’ll need to use the MTLXX Parallel tool as your destination tab, but the setup is similar. Open your BHS tab and search for יהוה. Open another LXX tab and search for κύριος. Now open your MTLXX tab to bring them together.

 

In your first example, we used CONTENTS as this combines verse results. For actual MTLXX alignment, use the merge command. Since you want (not) κύριος, set up your search as [MERGE BHS] [MERGE LXX].

 

One final, very important step, is the scope of your search. Do you want them to not be the same word, or not be in the same verse? To do the former, be sure to set the scope of your MTLXX tab to Paragraphs instead of Article. This can be done with the multi-line icon just to the right of your search entry area.

 

I hope this helps! I can provide screenshots and/or a workspace later if you need it.

 

Keep in mind this is super powerful, because it supports anything as a source, so you can do nonlexical searches such as ___ Hebrew root when the LXX is masculine, for example.

Oops, Daniel beat me to it with a workspace!

[miketisdell]

For the alignment searches, you’ll need to use the MTLXX Parallel tool as your destination tab, but the setup is similar. Open your BHS tab and search for יהוה. Open another LXX tab and search for κύριος. Now open your MTLXX tab to bring them together.

 

In your first example, we used CONTENTS as this combines verse results. For actual MTLXX alignment, use the merge command. Since you want (not) κύριος, set up your search as [MERGE BHS] <NOT> [MERGE LXX].

 

One final, very important step, is the scope of your search. Do you want them to not be the same word, or not be in the same verse? To do the former, be sure to set the scope of your MTLXX tab to Paragraphs instead of Article. This can be done with the multi-line icon just to the right of your search entry area.

 

I hope this helps! I can provide screenshots and/or a workspace later if you need it.

 

Keep in mind this is super powerful, because it supports anything as a source, so you can do nonlexical searches such as ___ Hebrew root when the LXX is masculine, for example.

Oops, Daniel beat me to it with a workspace!

I found the following articles just before checking back here, that provided this information.

 

https://www.accordancebible.com/Using-The-MT-LXX-Parallel

https://www.accordancebible.com/Using-The-MT-LXX-Parallel-Part-2

 

This gets me most of the way there, but I would like to be able to view the results by looking at the whole verse in the Hebrew and Greek texts, so far I have tried:

1. Using the [contents] option to limit the view of another window with the Hebrew and Greek texts in parallel but accordance will not let me choose the MT-LXX as a source for the [contents]
2. Creating a reference list from the results of the MT-LXX window, but accordance won't let me do that either.
3. Exporting the verse references to build a list, but I cannot find a way to export only the verse references.

It seems that this should be pretty easy to do i.e. hovering over the verse references provides the verse reference in the instant window below, but there seems to be no way to connect the verse list in the MT-LXX window to the other windows. How can I use this list to search in other windows that will display the entire verse?

 

I have provided the output of the MT-LXX, and an example of a parallel version windows that I would like to limit to only the verses found in the MT-LXX. Is this possible? If not, could this be put on a list for an upcoming version, it would make this module much more useful.

 

Mike

[Fabian]

I have adjust the Workspace my normal one, with only verse refs for you.

 

MT-LXX.accord.zip

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

[miketisdell]

I have adjust the Workspace my normal one, with only verse refs for you.

 

MT-LXX.accord.zip

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

 

 

I took a look at the workspace you provided and it doesn't provide what I am looking for i.e. the windows with the Hebrew and Greek that use the [HITS] command include all hits from the corresponding tab. What I would like is only references that are [HITS] in the MT-LXX tab.

[Timothy Jenney]

One quick option is to use our Greek Bible (LXX + GNT).

[miketisdell]

One quick option is to use our Greek Bible (LXX + GNT).

 

I am not sure how this would help?

[Timothy Jenney]

Hi Mike!

 

I'm thinking you could do one search for a particular Greek word across the entire canon. Display the search as an interlinear and you could then see the MT equivalent in the HB for the LXX. It's relatively simple and fast, compared to these other methods. It's easier to scan a lot of data. Once you identify a particular area of interest, you could then focus on it using one of these more advanced methods.

 

 

[Fabian]

Sorry it hasn't saved my changes.

 

I try again.

 

MT-LXX.accord.zip

 

For you just cmd-T and and then by 'Show as' only verses.

 

 

Or with Analysis -> Concordance you get also the verse list.

Greetings

 

Fabian

Edited May 9, 2018 by Fabian

[Joel Brown]

Mike, I don't believe there is currently any way to directly turn your MTLXX search results into a verse list in a tab, but there are some options to improve your results.

 

First, I prefer to set my tool Show As -> Articles, as this shows me the entire verse results, not just the words found and their reference.  This can be changed in the gear menu in the upper corner of your tool window. (I think upper left on Windows).

 

Second, you can tie your MTLXX tab to your Hebrew and/or Greek tabs, so as you scroll through your MTLXX results, those tabs will update and show you the results in full.

 

I hope this helps!

[miketisdell]

Mike, I don't believe there is currently any way to directly turn your MTLXX search results into a verse list in a tab, but there are some options to improve your results.

 

First, I prefer to set my tool Show As -> Articles, as this shows me the entire verse results, not just the words found and their reference.  This can be changed in the gear menu in the upper corner of your tool window. (I think upper left on Windows).

 

Second, you can tie your MTLXX tab to your Hebrew and/or Greek tabs, so as you scroll through your MTLXX results, those tabs will update and show you the results in full.

 

I hope this helps!

The second option sounds good, how do I tie these tabs together?

[Silas Marrs]

It's at the bottom of the little dropdown menu at the top of the tab.  More info: http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/Win12/Default.htm#topics/04_gswa/tie_separate_tabs.htm?Highlight=tab%20ties

Edited May 10, 2018 by Silas Marrs

[Helen Brown]

Click on the down arrow on the tab, or top to the Window menu: Tabs & Zones.

[miketisdell]

It's at the bottom of the little dropdown menu at the top of the tab.  More info: http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/Win12/Default.htm#topics/04_gswa/tie_separate_tabs.htm?Highlight=tab%20ties

That works! Thanks!

 

Is it possible to allow the [content] and/or [link] commands to work with the MT-LXX in a future release?