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Hebrew NT for someone with rudimentary Hebrew


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#1 Julia Falling

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:14 PM

Who has this and what can I do with it?

 

What I want to do is to determine how a particular Gk word is rendered in Hebrew in the NT.  I've had one year of Hebrew.  We sprinted through all of Pratico & Van Pelt.  Lots of hours of study.  Good quiz scores.  But I do not have the comfort with one year of Hebrew that I did after the first year of Greek.  And that was a year ago.

 

So – how searchable is the Hebrew NT?  I don't think it's tagged (at that price, I wouldn't expect it to be).  Would it be any use for what I want to do with it?  Would even attempting to do what I want to do make my head explode?

 

Thanks.  

 

P.S.  I think I need to get back into the Hebrew before I lose everything I learned!


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#2 Fabian

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:24 PM

Hello Julia

 

The texts are very rudimentary, the only thing you get by hover over ist the transliteration.

 

Unfortunately no Strong's/GKE, Parsing, etc. 

 

The NT Peshitta is better, but also no Strongs/GKE.

 

And yes I would love if OakTree get a warm hart and tag them.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#3 Julia Falling

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:31 PM

Thanks, Fabian.  Just the info I needed.  I think I'll skip it for now and avoid the risk of the head exploding.  If I can get my Hebrew up and running, I may reconsider.  There may not be much demand for a tagged Hebrew NT.


Julia Falling

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#4 Fabian

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 02:56 PM

I think there are not many words which are unique, so a tagged NT done with computerization would be easy. And then the BHQ could also be tagged. 

 

The same for the LXX with GKE numbers etc. etc. 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#5 Helen Brown

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 04:49 PM

We are working on a Hebrew New Testament tagged with Strong's, but there are many additional words, and several issues to deal with. The LXX also has many many additional words and names.

 

The Israel Bible Society has the tagged text on their website, so that might help you in the interim.


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#6 Fabian

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 05:32 PM

We are working on a Hebrew New Testament tagged with Strong's.

:)


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#7 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:32 PM

Hi Helen,

I'm surprised to hear there would be a lot of new words. What Greek text did they use as a source ? I assume that you are tagging the Hebrew back to Greek as with any other modern. Is that correct ?

Also do you have a link to the IBS online bible. I haven't been able to find it, at least not that works in my phone.

Thx
D
Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

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#8 Helen Brown

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:02 PM

The many new words are in Hebrew. IBS tagged it with both Greek and Hebrew numbers. I have used this link.


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#9 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:30 PM

Thx Helen. I assume there won't be grammatical tagging at least not initially ?
Thanx for the link. That worked better.

Thx
D
Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#10 Fabian

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:35 AM

The many new words are in Hebrew. IBS tagged it with both Greek and Hebrew numbers. I have used this link.

 

This would be cool in Accordance.

 

With Strong's for Hebrew and Greek,

with bold letters like the Luther Bible,

with the headings,

with the crossrefs (which are under the headings) as Notes,

with the crosss highlighting I requested before Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2018-05-28 um 08.28.43.png   108.64KB   0 downloads,

with the sound file.

 

Plus the grammatical tagging.

 

All this = bought

 

I'm sure the Hebrew Greek Strongs database can be expanded for the HMT and LXX too!

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 28 May 2018 - 01:39 AM.

Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#11 markusvonkaenel

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 06:45 AM

I will certainly buy - credit card is ready. :D


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#12 miketisdell

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:09 AM

We are working on a Hebrew New Testament tagged with Strong's, but there are many additional words, and several issues to deal with. The LXX also has many many additional words and names.

 

The Israel Bible Society has the tagged text on their website, so that might help you in the interim.

 

It would also be nice to have other Hebrew NT versions available. I had three in bibleworks, and (like English) it is nice to be able to compare them.



#13 Helen Brown

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:18 AM

Our current package includes the Modern and one of the Delitszch versions (neither are tagged ATM).


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#14 miketisdell

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:21 AM

One year of Hebrew will likely not be enough to read the Hebrew NT, but it wont take much more effort to be able read it. The Hebrew of the NT is actually easier than the Hebrew of the OT and the grammar is a little simpler, but there is vocabulary used in NT versions that isn't used in the OT.

 

 

 

Who has this and what can I do with it?

 

What I want to do is to determine how a particular Gk word is rendered in Hebrew in the NT.  I've had one year of Hebrew.  We sprinted through all of Pratico & Van Pelt.  Lots of hours of study.  Good quiz scores.  But I do not have the comfort with one year of Hebrew that I did after the first year of Greek.  And that was a year ago.

 

So – how searchable is the Hebrew NT?  I don't think it's tagged (at that price, I wouldn't expect it to be).  Would it be any use for what I want to do with it?  Would even attempting to do what I want to do make my head explode?

 

Thanks.  

 

P.S.  I think I need to get back into the Hebrew before I lose everything I learned!


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#15 miketisdell

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:34 AM

I had just received the BW package with the Hebrew texts a couple of days ago, and hadn't noticed the Modern version yet. I thought I only had one.

Which text are they tagging?

 

 

 

Our current package includes the Modern and one of the Delitszch versions (neither are tagged ATM).



#16 Helen Brown

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 09:04 AM

The one we are hoping to release (we ran into various issues) is the Modern HNT with Greek Strong's.


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#17 markusvonkaenel

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 09:08 AM

is it possible to convince you to do this also for the Delitzsch version, please?


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#18 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 12:24 PM

To Julia's original query, I tried out running the GNT (NA 28) in parallel with Modern HNT and tried to see how that would work. Mouse over only gets you the translit for the Hebrew. But Live Click will work for some of the words (usually finding Hebrew Content field hits rather than Entry, as the words are inflected) and selecting words and right click Research -> Hebrew Lex will work too. It's clunky by comparison with how Acc can work with a fully tagged text. On the other hand some might say a weaker crutch will build a stronger leg. You for example have to parse out bits for some amplify so that you remove articles and so on. But if you pick something simple like narrative in the Gospels (or start with the genealogy at Mt 1:1) and running it as a verse per line then you could make it work.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#19 Julia Falling

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 12:44 PM

One year of Hebrew will likely not be enough to read the Hebrew NT, but it wont take much more effort to be able read it. The Hebrew of the NT is actually easier than the Hebrew of the OT and the grammar is a little simpler, but there is vocabulary used in NT versions that isn't used in the OT.

 

That is encouraging, Mike.  

 

After 5 years of Greek in the classroom (starting 10 years ago) and coming away feeling very comfortable with the language, and really loving it, Hebrew was a real shock.  A lot of the problem was the pace – it was deadly.  Of course, I was older when I started Hebrew than when I started Greek, and I had already heard that 1 year of Hebrew doesn't get a student to the same place in that language as 1 year of Greek does in Greek.  But 2nd year Hebrew at the seminary where I was auditing was just 1 semester and required the learning of 1200-1500 new vocab words.  I was already not having fun.  Did I really want to take that on?  Did I have the time (and still prepare meals, do laundry, keep the house relatively clean, do a little gardening, and teach Sunday school)?  So I opted out.  When it comes to Hebrew, I'm going to have to rely upon tools.  I do not recommend taking up Hebrew for senior citizens.  I suppose it might help one keep one's wits, but, then again, it might cause one to lose them altogether!


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#20 miketisdell

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 01:22 PM

Julia,

 

I a very surprised to hear the amount of vocabulary they required. In my classes, I try to focus on specific texts (like the book of Ruth) and provide vocabulary required only for the texts I am working with in class. What I try to drive home is learning the shlamim verb paradigms well (beginning with Qal), noun forms, prepositions, and declensions.  With this and some basic grammar, you can be reading relatively quickly. Like Greek, the key is being able to parse the verb and nouns quickly so that the only barrier is vocabulary that can be quickly built as you read. By the end of the first year, my students can typically read comfortably through simple narrative texts (using a Hebrew Reader).

 

I strongly recommend using a Reader's Version of the text (They are available for the Greek NT, Hebrew OT, and (just released) for the LXX). I find that students who use these text advance far more quickly than those who try to use a computer or tablet (they make it far too easy to get the answers without thinking). I strongly recommend avoiding the use of an interlinear of any kind (they only hinder the learning of the biblical languages). 

 

Mike

 

Attached File  paradigm.jpg   111.14KB   0 downloads

 

P.S. This might help with the paradigm patterns.

 

 

That is encouraging, Mike.  

 

After 5 years of Greek in the classroom (starting 10 years ago) and coming away feeling very comfortable with the language, and really loving it, Hebrew was a real shock.  A lot of the problem was the pace – it was deadly.  Of course, I was older when I started Hebrew than when I started Greek, and I had already heard that 1 year of Hebrew doesn't get a student to the same place in that language as 1 year of Greek does in Greek.  But 2nd year Hebrew at the seminary where I was auditing was just 1 semester and required the learning of 1200-1500 new vocab words.  I was already not having fun.  Did I really want to take that on?  Did I have the time (and still prepare meals, do laundry, keep the house relatively clean, do a little gardening, and teach Sunday school)?  So I opted out.  When it comes to Hebrew, I'm going to have to rely upon tools.  I do not recommend taking up Hebrew for senior citizens.  I suppose it might help one keep one's wits, but, then again, it might cause one to lose them altogether!

 


Edited by miketisdell, 16 June 2018 - 01:28 PM.

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