Julia Falling Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Who has this and what can I do with it? What I want to do is to determine how a particular Gk word is rendered in Hebrew in the NT. I've had one year of Hebrew. We sprinted through all of Pratico & Van Pelt. Lots of hours of study. Good quiz scores. But I do not have the comfort with one year of Hebrew that I did after the first year of Greek. And that was a year ago. So – how searchable is the Hebrew NT? I don't think it's tagged (at that price, I wouldn't expect it to be). Would it be any use for what I want to do with it? Would even attempting to do what I want to do make my head explode? Thanks. P.S. I think I need to get back into the Hebrew before I lose everything I learned! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Hello Julia The texts are very rudimentary, the only thing you get by hover over ist the transliteration. Unfortunately no Strong's/GKE, Parsing, etc. The NT Peshitta is better, but also no Strongs/GKE. And yes I would love if OakTree get a warm hart and tag them. Greetings Fabian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Falling Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 Thanks, Fabian. Just the info I needed. I think I'll skip it for now and avoid the risk of the head exploding. If I can get my Hebrew up and running, I may reconsider. There may not be much demand for a tagged Hebrew NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I think there are not many words which are unique, so a tagged NT done with computerization would be easy. And then the BHQ could also be tagged. The same for the LXX with GKE numbers etc. etc. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 We are working on a Hebrew New Testament tagged with Strong's, but there are many additional words, and several issues to deal with. The LXX also has many many additional words and names. The Israel Bible Society has the tagged text on their website, so that might help you in the interim. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 We are working on a Hebrew New Testament tagged with Strong's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Hi Helen, I'm surprised to hear there would be a lot of new words. What Greek text did they use as a source ? I assume that you are tagging the Hebrew back to Greek as with any other modern. Is that correct ? Also do you have a link to the IBS online bible. I haven't been able to find it, at least not that works in my phone. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 The many new words are in Hebrew. IBS tagged it with both Greek and Hebrew numbers. I have used this link. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Thx Helen. I assume there won't be grammatical tagging at least not initially ? Thanx for the link. That worked better. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) The many new words are in Hebrew. IBS tagged it with both Greek and Hebrew numbers. I have used this link. This would be cool in Accordance. With Strong's for Hebrew and Greek, with bold letters like the Luther Bible, with the headings, with the crossrefs (which are under the headings) as Notes, with the crosss highlighting I requested before , with the sound file. Plus the grammatical tagging. All this = bought I'm sure the Hebrew Greek Strongs database can be expanded for the HMT and LXX too! Greetings Fabian Edited May 28, 2018 by Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markusvonkaenel Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I will certainly buy - credit card is ready. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketisdell Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 We are working on a Hebrew New Testament tagged with Strong's, but there are many additional words, and several issues to deal with. The LXX also has many many additional words and names. The Israel Bible Society has the tagged text on their website, so that might help you in the interim. It would also be nice to have other Hebrew NT versions available. I had three in bibleworks, and (like English) it is nice to be able to compare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Our current package includes the Modern and one of the Delitszch versions (neither are tagged ATM). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketisdell Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 One year of Hebrew will likely not be enough to read the Hebrew NT, but it wont take much more effort to be able read it. The Hebrew of the NT is actually easier than the Hebrew of the OT and the grammar is a little simpler, but there is vocabulary used in NT versions that isn't used in the OT. Who has this and what can I do with it? What I want to do is to determine how a particular Gk word is rendered in Hebrew in the NT. I've had one year of Hebrew. We sprinted through all of Pratico & Van Pelt. Lots of hours of study. Good quiz scores. But I do not have the comfort with one year of Hebrew that I did after the first year of Greek. And that was a year ago. So – how searchable is the Hebrew NT? I don't think it's tagged (at that price, I wouldn't expect it to be). Would it be any use for what I want to do with it? Would even attempting to do what I want to do make my head explode? Thanks. P.S. I think I need to get back into the Hebrew before I lose everything I learned! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketisdell Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I had just received the BW package with the Hebrew texts a couple of days ago, and hadn't noticed the Modern version yet. I thought I only had one. Which text are they tagging? Our current package includes the Modern and one of the Delitszch versions (neither are tagged ATM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Brown Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 The one we are hoping to release (we ran into various issues) is the Modern HNT with Greek Strong's. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markusvonkaenel Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 is it possible to convince you to do this also for the Delitzsch version, please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 To Julia's original query, I tried out running the GNT (NA 28) in parallel with Modern HNT and tried to see how that would work. Mouse over only gets you the translit for the Hebrew. But Live Click will work for some of the words (usually finding Hebrew Content field hits rather than Entry, as the words are inflected) and selecting words and right click Research -> Hebrew Lex will work too. It's clunky by comparison with how Acc can work with a fully tagged text. On the other hand some might say a weaker crutch will build a stronger leg. You for example have to parse out bits for some amplify so that you remove articles and so on. But if you pick something simple like narrative in the Gospels (or start with the genealogy at Mt 1:1) and running it as a verse per line then you could make it work. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Falling Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 One year of Hebrew will likely not be enough to read the Hebrew NT, but it wont take much more effort to be able read it. The Hebrew of the NT is actually easier than the Hebrew of the OT and the grammar is a little simpler, but there is vocabulary used in NT versions that isn't used in the OT. That is encouraging, Mike. After 5 years of Greek in the classroom (starting 10 years ago) and coming away feeling very comfortable with the language, and really loving it, Hebrew was a real shock. A lot of the problem was the pace – it was deadly. Of course, I was older when I started Hebrew than when I started Greek, and I had already heard that 1 year of Hebrew doesn't get a student to the same place in that language as 1 year of Greek does in Greek. But 2nd year Hebrew at the seminary where I was auditing was just 1 semester and required the learning of 1200-1500 new vocab words. I was already not having fun. Did I really want to take that on? Did I have the time (and still prepare meals, do laundry, keep the house relatively clean, do a little gardening, and teach Sunday school)? So I opted out. When it comes to Hebrew, I'm going to have to rely upon tools. I do not recommend taking up Hebrew for senior citizens. I suppose it might help one keep one's wits, but, then again, it might cause one to lose them altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketisdell Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Julia, I a very surprised to hear the amount of vocabulary they required. In my classes, I try to focus on specific texts (like the book of Ruth) and provide vocabulary required only for the texts I am working with in class. What I try to drive home is learning the shlamim verb paradigms well (beginning with Qal), noun forms, prepositions, and declensions. With this and some basic grammar, you can be reading relatively quickly. Like Greek, the key is being able to parse the verb and nouns quickly so that the only barrier is vocabulary that can be quickly built as you read. By the end of the first year, my students can typically read comfortably through simple narrative texts (using a Hebrew Reader). I strongly recommend using a Reader's Version of the text (They are available for the Greek NT, Hebrew OT, and (just released) for the LXX). I find that students who use these text advance far more quickly than those who try to use a computer or tablet (they make it far too easy to get the answers without thinking). I strongly recommend avoiding the use of an interlinear of any kind (they only hinder the learning of the biblical languages). Mike P.S. This might help with the paradigm patterns. That is encouraging, Mike. After 5 years of Greek in the classroom (starting 10 years ago) and coming away feeling very comfortable with the language, and really loving it, Hebrew was a real shock. A lot of the problem was the pace – it was deadly. Of course, I was older when I started Hebrew than when I started Greek, and I had already heard that 1 year of Hebrew doesn't get a student to the same place in that language as 1 year of Greek does in Greek. But 2nd year Hebrew at the seminary where I was auditing was just 1 semester and required the learning of 1200-1500 new vocab words. I was already not having fun. Did I really want to take that on? Did I have the time (and still prepare meals, do laundry, keep the house relatively clean, do a little gardening, and teach Sunday school)? So I opted out. When it comes to Hebrew, I'm going to have to rely upon tools. I do not recommend taking up Hebrew for senior citizens. I suppose it might help one keep one's wits, but, then again, it might cause one to lose them altogether! Edited June 16, 2018 by miketisdell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markusvonkaenel Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Julia, don't give up. It's not only the NT it's at the end the whole bible. Every hour your are investing in Hebrew is a fortune in better understanding the whole picture, from Genesis to Revelation. Enjoy to learn the holy language. Edited June 16, 2018 by markusvonkaenel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Falling Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Mike – How would you like to move to beautiful Northeast Tennessee to teach Hebrew? Your approach would be much appreciated! There were other students in my Hebrew class – young, bright ones, who were very good students – who also opted out of 2nd year Hebrew. I ran into one earlier this year who said that she hadn't enjoyed Hebrew, either, but loves Greek. I think that, had they stretched the 3 semesters to 4 it would have been a lot more manageable. I would have been willing to attend in the summer had they stretched it from August to August for a full 2 years and taken it at a pace that didn't leave us all winded. I do have the Reader's version of the UBS5th. I need to start using it daily. My husband and I already do the Daily Dose of Greek with Dr. Plummer (SBTS). More reading would help me to grow further. I really think that there remains a place for print Bibles! I've considered working through The First Hebrew Primer to brush up on my Hebrew and then to go back and review Pratico & VanPelt. If I can get to the point where I can parse Hebrew as readily as I can Greek, or at least somewhere in the vicinity, I'll purchase a Hebrew Reader's version. At this point, I've been out of class for a year and am badly "backslidden", language-wise, that is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markusvonkaenel Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 May I suggest something: look at "Ulpan Or" Jerusalem. It's a very good language school. they offer also lessons via internet. And the teachers are Israelis. Then the language is not only in the book but living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I've considered working through The First Hebrew Primer to brush up on my Hebrew and then to go back and review Pratico & VanPelt. I actually persisted with The First Hebrew Primer for a while before switching to PvP. I found a lot of issues with it. I was ultimately frustrated with it's lack of clarity regarding spelling and insufficient preparation for written exercises. As a refresher it might be ok but I also found a bunch a errors in it which was not great in an basic teaching work. I'm enjoying PvP much more I must say. I am taking it pretty slowly but it's progressing. Thx D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Falling Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Thanks for the tip, Markus. Daniel – Very useful, Daniel. Thanks. I'll approach the Primer with caution! At some point, I've got to decide how far I want to pursue the Hebrew. I'm 66. I don't learn or retain as well as I did as a kid. Not even as well as I did 10 years ago. I'm playing "catch-up" with theology, too. We were saved as adults. All in all, I'm pretty well-grounded, but we spent quite a few years 'wandering in the wilderness', in churches where the preaching just didn't go very deep. My learning mostly happened by just reading the Scriptures, using various helps, listening to good preaching from sound teachers via radio, then podcasts. We're finally in a really solid church – such a huge blessing. As a result, we're being stretched spiritually and intellectually. We have a place to learn and to serve. It's been really, really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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