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Bibleworks ceases operation as of June 15, 2018


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#21 Abram K-J

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 08:47 PM

There's an app for that!


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#22 Abram K-J

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 08:50 PM

I read that too fast, jarcher... was thinking about the menu bar. There is indeed an app for that (Bartender) that works quite nicely, that Rick probably already knows about. But then I looked at Rick's dock icons!  :o


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#23 Rich

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 08:58 PM

Another issue — most of these texts I would imagine are required to be DRM'ed by the content providers, which I would presume would make open standards for content and markup even more problematic. 

 

There isn't a day where I wish the books I had bought in Kindle would work on Apple iBooks (or occasionally vice versa).  There isn't a lot of incentive for the vendors to do this, but I imagine much of the rub or difficulty is the likely proprietary DRM models as much as the markup or storage architecture of the content.

 

They did in fact pass such legislation I believe in Europe. There is always an issue with vendors producing something new merely as a lock-in vs actual innovation and I suspect concerns of that type on the part of customers drove some of it. Mind standardize power plugs for electrical supply in houses are very useful, so such standards do have their applications.

 

Back to the etext issue, I wouldn't suggest legislation either. And its not an ebook vs non-ebook issue really - the ebook formats do this also though they are simpler and many readers support many formats because the formats are known. It's possible to design interoperability in multiple ways. What I suggested when I wrote a lengthier paper on this problem is that open formats is the best way to go - document everything. It makes it possible to write translators or drivers. While standard formats are nice, usually they get bogged down in standards committees for a while, and then come out very bloated as every contributor wants their special piece - just look at XML based standards like this. But extensible customizable base formats are possible. The extensions can be ignored in translation. So yes the translation is lossy but it's possible. But I agree tool specific metadata does mean that they cannot just be moved over. My main concern with things like this though is that when a company does fold can I keep the data ? How easy is it ? How much of the metadata can I keep and so on ? Of course secret sauce is persisted in file formats and so there is a business impact.

 

Another thought extending the above I have had on this is that publishers could produce a base text with a good deal of internal mark up already in place in an open format. Then layers could be laid on top using extensions and these allow vendor specific customizations to be provided on top of the base portable text. My model was of a text with more and more layers on it with metadata of varying kinds. When I think about the text of the GNT for example I think of the text - the actual Greek characters as layer 0. Then the versification is layer 1, tagging of one kind or another layer x,y,z and so on up. It can in fact be done that way too.

 

Ultimately this is a way bigger change that any of us are in a place to force, nor in fairness is it a thing to be forced. And as I said if it were to happen it would impact business and licensing models. But it also means that a large portion of the basic investment in a text can be preserved and ported to a new tool when needed. It also means that data sets can be shared for collaborative study and scholarly critique and cross-checking of experiments.

 

Anyhow, that's just how I think about it when wearing my open source developer hat.

 

Thx

D


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#24 Julia Falling

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 09:50 PM

 

How about this?

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2018-06-02 at 10.51.55 PM.jpg   108.27KB   9 downloads


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#25 R. Mansfield

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 10:34 PM

Rick, we need to talk about the number of icons on your toolbar.

 

That’s my rightmost screen. I have a three-monitor setup. There’s always a lot to look after :-)


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#26 Ιακοβ

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 01:42 AM

Certainly the government could make some bad laws, but I believe it would be possible to implement in a business friendly way. i.e Imagine a system that transparently tracks copyright and licensing (i.e. blockchain) The content creator could see who has has purchased the creative work (and can hence verify royalty cheques), and the purchaser would be able to verify ownership (for things like cross grades).

 

Now of course (for example), if you purchase something for kindle, there is conceptually 1. a portion of that pays the content creator, 2. the publisher, and 3. the rest goes to Amazon's costs and product.

  • I believe it should be possible to cross grade so that parts 1+2 of the cost don't have to be paid again.
  • I believe it should be possible to transfer ownership (i.e. kindle to kindle) without any of 1+2+3 needing to be paid.

Happy to be convinced otherwise though. 


My top 5 feature requests:
  1. 15pt font size for reading text (bible, journal articles, commentaries, etc...)
  2. Improved searching for Journal articles. (So we can search for journal article by verse + english text)
  3. Display Journal titles in journal search results. (Imagine a google search where you saw the page text but no headings?)
  4. Improved greek text search—i.e. allow searching of all greek text the same way you would search LXX+NT, i.e. LXX+NT+ApocFathers+etc...
  5. Phrase (sympathetic) highlighting.

#27 Fabian

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:39 AM

We talked about Bible software on iPad. Your solution is on the Mac.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

PLEASE!
Bring more international Bibles to the store,
fix my reported bugs, even the old ones which never was addressed,
develop my feature requests, the new once and the once I made years ago,
in nearer future.

#28 Julia Falling

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 06:50 AM

We talked about Bible software on iPad. Your solution is on the Mac.
 
Greetings
 
Fabian


Yep. Doesn’t work on iPad. It would be nice to see multiple versions at the same time on the iPad.
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#29 Fabian

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 07:26 AM

O.K. back to "Topic".

 

In the last 2 days I browsed through several forums and other social media. I found out most are "shocked" (me too), but as I wrote more, many are still on an old version of BW. Or had jumped over a few versions.

 

How can you expect your Bible software will survive if you stay on the >10 year old version. This says no other than: You don't need a new version, but then it doesn't matter if BW will survive or not. You doesn't use it anymore, you are lucky with what you have. But then you don't have to complain later.

 

There are a lot of posts from Michael Bushell and other staff members who wrote: "Pray for us", in the last months. Yes you can't beat the potential customers to buy your product and I see it also, that some are unhappy if they should buy an new version of Accordance for a new module which needs to upgrade. But this is in my eyes a good way to give a hint you should upgrade, without beating the users.

 

There is definitely more to say, maybe later, but I believe you get this point.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

PLEASE!
Bring more international Bibles to the store,
fix my reported bugs, even the old ones which never was addressed,
develop my feature requests, the new once and the once I made years ago,
in nearer future.

#30 ukfraser

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 08:46 AM

You make a very valid point Fabian and I totally agree with you. We must support Accordance ( it’s the only software I own where I have upgraded each version). The new features are worth it but the upgrade cost is also very reasonable.

The Accordance team also work incredibly hard bringing us deals and this has been particularly noticeable that we have virtually had them weekly for im guessing about the last two years compared to when I first joined. I am assuming supporting them helps when negotiating deals with the publishers but also the effort involved in all the mega tagging.

This is a product that I have been blessed by and want others to be blessed by it.
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#31 markusvonkaenel

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:43 AM

Support Accordance, why? It's their business. If they offer good products, customers will buy, if not, it's their problem. A constant adjustment to the market will keep Accordance in the market.

 

Other software business go in the cloud (eg. SAP/MS/Apple/Goole/Adobe). I do not buy a lot from Accordance because If they make the wrong decision then I own a lot of worthless software ( eg.  2 or 3 new OSX versions later). 

 

If I could rent from accordance, I would probably invest more. Look at the Apple store and see how many SW-developers offer a subscription on a monthly basis.

 

So I hope, they make the correct decisions and in the meantime I stick with Accordance (and have no other Bible software).


Edited by markusvonkaenel, 03 June 2018 - 10:47 AM.


#32 Julia Falling

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:51 PM

If going into the cloud means I cannot use a piece of software when I don't have an internet connection, I don't ever want to have cloud-based software.

 

I think the reason many of us upgrade and stick with Accordance is a combination of an excellent product along with excellent support.  I don't think I've heard of any other major producer of Bible software that has developers and tech staff as responsive as Accordance.  Bugs get fixed.  Typos get fixed.  Missing hyperlinks are added.  New tools and texts are added regularly.  If something is messed up, staff arranges a screen share to get it fixed.

 

We recommend Accordance to others and give it as graduation gifts.  We upgrade when upgrades become available.  We buy and upgrade because the software is good, but also because we understand that all the hours that go into development must be paid for.  I most definitely do not take Accordance for granted.  It is a wonderful tool and enables me to make the most of Bible study time. 


Edited by Julia Falling, 03 June 2018 - 02:52 PM.

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iPhone 11 iOS 13
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iAccord 3


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#33 ukfraser

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:05 PM

I don't think I've heard of any other major producer of Bible software that has developers and tech staff as responsive as Accordance.  Bugs get fixed. ]


Even on the weekend!!!!!
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Other life enhancing software I use includes: forScore with AirTurn page turner for leading all aspects of a service from my iPad including liturgy, sermon and the congregational singing; HymnQuest for developing my selection of appropriate music for the service; Sibelius for preparing the music scores; Lightroom for my photo library!


#34 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 03:31 PM

Hi,

 

I'm not sure of the original poster's intent on this Forum. But someone also posted the same thing on Logos' Forum at https://community.lo...850/980743.aspx. Both have similar themes - sadness, some will still use it, perhaps Acc or Logos could acquire some of their licenses, and if they do, also some of their users.

 

But the fact is, BW10 will be supported for a long while (even with a new 64 bit Mac version), and some are even talking of making it open source. With their philosophy and choice of modules, one wonders what else they would have added to BW 11, especially given the length of time it took to update BW 9 to 10. It feels like a mature program that does what is says it will do.

 

I feel obliged to say BibleWorks isn't ceasing operations because of a lack of excellence of product or support. Regarding the latter, at https://www.accordan...use/#entry80706I wrote, "When I pointed out to BW that backspace delete didn't work in BW10 with the Ezra SIL keyboard in Keyman, they fixed it overnight (literally) and made the patch available the next morning."

 

My experience has been the same for BW and Acc. I use them because they are excellent products with excellent support.

 

Regards,

 

Michel


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#35 Ιακοβ

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 04:52 PM

Yep. Doesn’t work on iPad. It would be nice to see multiple versions at the same time on the iPad.

 

Yep, at least several times per week, I am reading (in the greek), and I want to check "how does this come out in all of the English versions". It is possible to do this through some websites, but I would rather stay in Accordance.


My top 5 feature requests:
  1. 15pt font size for reading text (bible, journal articles, commentaries, etc...)
  2. Improved searching for Journal articles. (So we can search for journal article by verse + english text)
  3. Display Journal titles in journal search results. (Imagine a google search where you saw the page text but no headings?)
  4. Improved greek text search—i.e. allow searching of all greek text the same way you would search LXX+NT, i.e. LXX+NT+ApocFathers+etc...
  5. Phrase (sympathetic) highlighting.

#36 preterist1

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 04:53 PM

To my good friends Roy and Helen at Accordance -- I have a friend who owns Bible Works and uses it on his Windows desktop computer. He loves the BW program and was discouraged when he saw the announcement about BW ceasing further development.

My advice to Accordance: Rather than spend a lot of money to acquire the BW company, why not instead offer the BW users a free switch over to the Accordance program, and a highly discounted (at cost) swap of their BW modules for the equivalent ones in Accordance. If you make it real cheap and easy for them, you might gain a bunch of new Accordance users. You might lose a little money on the module-swapping, but that would be thousands of times cheaper than trying to acquire the BW company. You can bet L-O-G-O-S will try to create a bidding war over BW in order to make Accordance pay a lot more for BW than it is actually worth. I would encourage Accordance to avoid that trap and simply offer the BW users a very cheap swap of their modules for Accordance equivalents.


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International Preterist Association
www.preterist.org

#37 Fabian

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 04:58 PM

I thought the same.

And I still miss some features which BW can do. Hopefully they come to Accordance.

Greetings

Fabian

In addition to this.

 

Since the sales channel over BW has disappeared, maybe some publishers look for another channel which gives OakTree a chance to knock on their doors.

For example: The Bibles (Elberfelder 2006, Münchner Neues Testament mit Strong's, French Louis Second avec Strong's, Dutch Bibles, Danish Bibles, Turk, Bulgarian etc. etc.), The second sound file of the GNT and more.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 03 June 2018 - 05:23 PM.

Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

PLEASE!
Bring more international Bibles to the store,
fix my reported bugs, even the old ones which never was addressed,
develop my feature requests, the new once and the once I made years ago,
in nearer future.

#38 R. Mansfield

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:12 PM

My advice to Accordance: Rather than spend a lot of money to acquire the BW company, why not instead offer the BW users a free switch over to the Accordance program, and a highly discounted (at cost) swap of their BW modules for the equivalent ones in Accordance. If you make it real cheap and easy for them, you might gain a bunch of new Accordance users. You might lose a little money on the module-swapping, but that would be thousands of times cheaper than trying to acquire the BW company. You can bet L-O-G-O-S will try to create a bidding war over BW in order to make Accordance pay a lot more for BW than it is actually worth. I would encourage Accordance to avoid that trap and simply offer the BW users a very cheap swap of their modules for Accordance equivalents.

 

We've had numerous BibleWorks customers contacting us since Friday. We have been working throughout the weekend on a solution for BibleWorks users who may want to consider using Accordance going forward. We will make an announcement tomorrow (Monday).


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#39 Fabian

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:34 AM

The BibleWorks Manuscript Project is a BibleWorks own project and not licensed from others. 

 

But I would love if Accordance would license them. That seems feasible.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

PLEASE!
Bring more international Bibles to the store,
fix my reported bugs, even the old ones which never was addressed,
develop my feature requests, the new once and the once I made years ago,
in nearer future.

#40 haydnguy

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:22 PM

I am wondering how long the crossover offer lasts. I am hoping that I might still take advantage of it a week from today. That would be 6/15/2018. Thank you.






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