Jump to content


Photo

Greek word - Hebrew word


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:01 AM

Is there a possibility to find for each greek word the underlying Hebrew word? It good also be a good lexicon.

 

I would like to know for the word, eg. βίου the hebrew word. in this case it is translated as: הַנְּכָסִים.


Edited by markusvonkaenel, 12 June 2018 - 09:16 AM.


#2 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,750 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:08 AM

Hi Markus,

 

  What is the context you are working in ? Are you doing this in comparison of the LXX and MT texts ? If so the MT-LXX Parallel db is available. Or do you want something more general like a lexicon that would show you how you might translate a Hebrew work with a Greek one or vice versa ?

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#3 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:15 AM

Hi Daniel

 

I'm more generally looking in the translation.

 

I read the Keil-Delitsch (printed version from Israel and not the same as the accordance one) and compared to the Schlachter2000. Not the same meaning. Then I compared with NKJV, also not the same als K-D. Then I looked in NRSV. Same translation.

 

So I went to the greek text, found the word (see my question) and now im wondering how I can bring it together.

 

BTW: quite an important difference in translation.

 

The German LXX would be great, but that's not the topic here.

 

you hit the point:

Or do you want something more general like a lexicon that would show you how you might translate a Hebrew work with a Greek one or vice versa ?


Edited by markusvonkaenel, 12 June 2018 - 09:17 AM.

  • Fabian likes this

#4 Fabian

Fabian

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,874 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:30 AM

Hey Markus

 

Maybe this Website is good for you. You can click on the words and it shows you the Greek and Hebrew word. If I understood Helen correct this will come to Accordance.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#5 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,750 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:42 AM

Fabian, you're referring to the comment about a Strong's tagged Hebrew NT : https://www.accordan...ew/#entry116505 ?

 

Yep that would help.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#6 Fabian

Fabian

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,874 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:44 AM

Daniel, yes exactly. And a Greek and Hebrew Strongs/GKE tagged LXX would be helpful too.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian 


Edited by Fabian, 12 June 2018 - 09:48 AM.

Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#7 Fabian

Fabian

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,874 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:56 AM

The German LXX would be great, but that's not the topic here.

 

Rick Bennet mentioned he had done this on the list to get it from the GBS. Hopefully it comes soon.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#8 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:14 AM

Hi Fabian

 

Thanks for the link. at last modern Hebrew to Greek (The BS of Israel uses UBS? as text basis). We need also the LXX to Hebrew as you already mentionend.  

 

Now we are depending on the grace of Accordance :-)


  • Fabian likes this

#9 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,056 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monet
  • Interests:heritage homes, antiques, gardens, fresh food, good coffee, live music, ויין אשר ישמח לבב אנוש (Ps 104,15)
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:02 AM

Hi Markus,

 

One simple way to get the main equivalents would be to search A Manual Greek Lexicon of the NT.

Attached File  נכסים.png   98.62KB   0 downloads

Here is the module request if you are interested -

https://www.accordan...+greek +lexicon

By the way, what verse are you referring to for βίου // הַנְּכָסִים?

Regards,

Michel


  • Fabian likes this

Accordance 12.2.7 & 2.6.4

    Mac mini, High Sierra, 10.13.5
    iPad mini, 11.4

Android, 1.1.4 (9900)

    Huawei, Android 6.0.1


#10 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:35 AM

I talk about 1. John 2.16



#11 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,056 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monet
  • Interests:heritage homes, antiques, gardens, fresh food, good coffee, live music, ויין אשר ישמח לבב אנוש (Ps 104,15)
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:06 PM

Hi Markus,

 

I see, you are reading Modern Hebrew NTs. The Manual Lexicon gives biblical Hebrew equivalents. Here is the Manual Lexicon entry for βιος :

Attached File  βίος.png   147.84KB   0 downloads

נכסים  means "property, assets, riches, wealth, possessions" in Modern Hebrew (Alcalay, The Complete Hebrew English Dictionary)," corresponding to "resources needed to maintain life, means of subsistence," specifically "property" (BDAG, under βιος for 1 John 2,16)


Accordance 12.2.7 & 2.6.4

    Mac mini, High Sierra, 10.13.5
    iPad mini, 11.4

Android, 1.1.4 (9900)

    Huawei, Android 6.0.1


#12 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:29 PM

Not really, I prefer my Keil-Delitsch more. :-)

I stick with the Texts Receptus whenever possible. To read the NT with K-D is much easier than the modern one from the Israel Bible S. if you can read the Tanach in Hebrew.

 

Edit, not good remarks from my side.


Edited by markusvonkaenel, 12 June 2018 - 01:24 PM.


#13 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,056 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monet
  • Interests:heritage homes, antiques, gardens, fresh food, good coffee, live music, ויין אשר ישמח לבב אנוש (Ps 104,15)
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:51 PM

You've completely lost me. You brought up the parallel, which occurs in Delitzsch's translation (‎גֵאוּת הַנְּכָסִים in my edition), and in BSI's translation. And, I wasn't suggesting it was a good translation, just it is a possible one. As to scholarship and fluency, read Member Profiles before you make such suggestions. I hope others can help you.


Accordance 12.2.7 & 2.6.4

    Mac mini, High Sierra, 10.13.5
    iPad mini, 11.4

Android, 1.1.4 (9900)

    Huawei, Android 6.0.1


#14 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:04 PM

Sorry, did not intend to offend you. Beg you pardon.



#15 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,056 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Monet
  • Interests:heritage homes, antiques, gardens, fresh food, good coffee, live music, ויין אשר ישמח לבב אנוש (Ps 104,15)
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:06 PM

Accepted.


Accordance 12.2.7 & 2.6.4

    Mac mini, High Sierra, 10.13.5
    iPad mini, 11.4

Android, 1.1.4 (9900)

    Huawei, Android 6.0.1


#16 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:08 PM

Thanks. 



#17 Helen Brown

Helen Brown

    Emerald

  • Admin
  • 11,183 posts
  • Twitter:accordancebible
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:heart in Israel
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:32 PM

You are confusing everyone by referring to Keil-Delitzsch which is a commentary on the Hebrew Bible. I think you are looking at one of the many translations of the NT by the same Delitzsch (we only have one of his). You have to remember that in the late 19th century Hebrew was not a spoken language. He wrote in a sort of classical, Mishnaic, Hebrew that is neither Biblical nor modern. He seems also to have relied heavily on the KJV. 

 

Even the Modern HNT is not exactly modern spoken Hebrew as I believe the translators aimed for a more classical style.

 

I personally do not think that either of these translations should be used to throw light on the original Greek of the NT.


  • Michael J. Bolesta and Ken Simpson like this
Helen Brown
OakTree Software

#18 markusvonkaenel

markusvonkaenel

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ersigen and jerusalem
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:04 AM

Thanks Helen.

Let's stop here. Fabian actually gave me the answer I needed.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users