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Jastrow's Dictionary of Targumim, Talmud and Midrashic Literature?


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#1 Donald Cobb

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:30 AM

I wonder if there would be any interest in making this ressource available. It's not perfect, and somewhat dated (1926), but I don't know of any other Aramaic lexicon that allows one to really work on Aramaic texts outside of the Hebrew Scriptures. In addition, I don't see any equivalent Aramaic lexica offered by Accordance. 

 

Does something more recent exist somewhere out there? If not, could we look forward to an Accordance version of Jastrow?

 

Thanks for any input!

 

Don Cobb

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#2 Donald Cobb

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 08:35 AM

Just to keep this visible...

 

I see that Jastrow is already in "that other software":

 

https://www.logos.co...shic-literature

 

I've also seen Sokoloff mentioned. Does anybody have an opinion on it?

 

DC


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#3 mgvh

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 11:42 AM

I have not used Sokoloff (only costs $5564 used on Amazon!), but it appears to be the best and only successor to Jastrow.

There is, however, the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon Project which might be the most helpful of all. And it's online and searchable and free!

 

In the meantime...

I have created a User Tool that I label Aramaic & Syriac Lexicons. In it, I have:

>>>>

 

Jastrow’s Dictionary of Targumim, Talmud and Midrashic Literature
OR at Archive.org

Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon Project

Payne Smith A Compendious Syriac Dictionary

OR at Archive.org

 

>>>>

At least now I have easy access to these these within Accordance to get to them via the built-in web browser.

BTW, Jastrow and Payne Smith are housed at Tyndale, but the site does not seem to be functioning well, so I also have links to the texts at archive.org


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#4 markusvonkaenel

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 03:36 AM

for Sokoloff:

 

http://www.biupress.....x=0&search.y=0


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#5 Donald Cobb

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 10:50 AM

I have not used Sokoloff (only costs $5564 used on Amazon!), but it appears to be the best and only successor to Jastrow.

There is, however, the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon Project which might be the most helpful of all. And it's online and searchable and free!

 

In the meantime...

I have created a User Tool that I label Aramaic & Syriac Lexicons. In it, I have:

>>>>

 

Jastrow’s Dictionary of Targumim, Talmud and Midrashic Literature
OR at Archive.org

Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon Project

Payne Smith A Compendious Syriac Dictionary

OR at Archive.org

 

>>>>

At least now I have easy access to these these within Accordance to get to them via the built-in web browser.

BTW, Jastrow and Payne Smith are housed at Tyndale, but the site does not seem to be functioning well, so I also have links to the texts at archive.org

 

Thanks Mark. I've used the Tyndale version of Jastrow fairly extensively and have actually set it up so I can use it via the internet tab on Accordance. It's because there seems to be a problem with the Tyndale site lately that I was wondering about it being converted into an Accordance ressource.

 

Sokolloff seems to be the standard more recently, but even if prices can be found around $150 (BTW, thanks for the link Marcus!), it's still outside of my budget for the use it would get. I think for what I would be doing, Jastrow would probably be sufficient most of the time.

 

The Cal site doesn't strike me as particularly user friendly; have you used it much? Is it just glosses like in the Instant Details? Or is there more to it?

 

To the kind folks at Accordance, I would be interested to know if the idea of a Jastrow ressource has ever been entertained, or if it might be. Thanks!  :)

 

Regards,

 

Don Cobb



#6 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 07:36 AM

We have been working diligently to find a solution for Aramaic (both for the Mishnah and the Targumim). So far, we have not found a solution at a price-point we can afford (i.e. a selling price we think our customers would be willing to pay). We are actively pursuing other avenues. 


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Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer
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#7 Donald Cobb

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 08:51 AM

We have been working diligently to find a solution for Aramaic (both for the Mishnah and the Targumim). So far, we have not found a solution at a price-point we can afford (i.e. a selling price we think our customers would be willing to pay). We are actively pursuing other avenues. 

 

Hello Timothy,

 

Thanks for your response. So I should take "We are actively pursuing other avenues" to mean that Jastrow is not one of them. Is that correct? 

 

Don



#8 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:01 AM

No, we'd love to have Jastrow. I meant pursuing other ways to acquire it, as well as pursing other resources like the ones mentioned earlier.


Blessings,
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#9 Donald Cobb

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:30 AM

No, we'd love to have Jastrow. I meant pursuing other ways to acquire it, as well as pursing other resources like the ones mentioned earlier.

 

Ok. Fantastic! Thanks. BTW, any timeline? Or is that too cheeky?  :D



#10 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 11:17 AM

Actually, every avenue we have pursued so far has resulted in a dead end. We either can't acquire the rights, or an e-text is not available, or the cost of digitizing the text is too high to expect a reasonable return on our investment (or even covering the cost, in some cases).

 

We haven't given up, mind you, but really don't have any progress to report other than that we haven't made any progress...


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#11 Donald Cobb

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 03:27 PM

Actually, every avenue we have pursued so far has resulted in a dead end. We either can't acquire the rights, or an e-text is not available, or the cost of digitizing the text is too high to expect a reasonable return on our investment (or even covering the cost, in some cases).

 

We haven't given up, mind you, but really don't have any progress to report other than that we haven't made any progress...

 

 

Thanks Timothy. That at least gives me an idea of the options available for the time being. :wacko:

 

Don


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#12 MattChristian

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 09:01 PM

Sokoloff is great and there are several different versions. If you are willing to learn Syriac (or at least the script) you can use Noldke's Syriac Lexicon, a massive update of Payne's lexicon. Well worth the investment in terms of the diachronic study of Aramaic. I usually find a good range of glosses that are relatable to Imperial Aramaic (Biblical corpus). Although I doubt it would be a practical investment for Accordance to do either. They would be better of going for Payne's work as I believe it is public domain or close to it...


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Cheers,

 

Matt C


#13 TYA

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 09:29 PM

I too would greatly appreciate more Aramaic resources (and perhaps more specifically, Syriac) in Accordance (besides HALOT); and more specifically, something specifically keyed to the Peshitta (both "OT" & "NT"), and also the targums.

 

I see that discussion has already been made regarding the CAL (Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon), which works decently well with the targums bundle in BW.  (Just for the record, the morphology tagging is actually better here in Accordance (i.e. more detailed on verb tense), but there is more overall information given for each word in BW).

 

But I would also like to have a lexicon keyed to the Peshitta texts, and two potential solutions are Janet Magiera (Light of the Word Ministries), who has a relatively simple, but nice lexicon that BW sold for only $30, along with her Aramaic and English texts.  That would be an attractive offering in addition to the tagging that the Peshitta "NT" already has in Accordance.

 

In addition, Dave Bauscher (http://aramaicnt.com/) has beautifully keyed the CAL lexicon (actually, technically George Kiraz' SEDRA database) to the Peshitta "NT."  I have this product for e-Sword, and while the functionality of e-Sword is nowhere on the same level of Accordance of BW, my point is that there is at least a lexicon--more than just morphology tagging--keyed to the text.

 

And so, I wonder if a deal could be made with either Janet Magiera or Dave Bauscher to get their lexicons into Accordance.  (Their English translations are also very worthwhile to acquire as well.  (For those who aren't aware, there are nearly 10 English translations available for the Peshitta "NT," and 2 available for the Peshitta "OT" (viz., George Lamsa and Dave Bauscher).  These would all be good for Accordance to have.

 

But Accordance also amazes me with its superior offerings in certain areas, exceeding what I've been blessed with in other programs; and therefore, I wouldn't put it beyond Accordance to acquire some of these other resources being discussed up above (Payne Smith, Jastrow, etc.).  They are all available for free in pdf form, but I know that would take quite an effort to truly digitize.


Edited by TYA, 08 October 2018 - 09:49 PM.

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#14 MattChristian

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 05:33 PM

Maybe someday...


Cheers,

 

Matt C


#15 mario.sanpablo

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 05:47 AM

Will Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB) Aramaic and Hebrew Morphology be available soon? Thank you. 

#16 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 08:38 AM

Mario,

 

How is this different from the Stuttgart tagged Hebrew Bible with apparatus we currently offer? https://www.accordan...ails/?pid=BHS-T


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#17 Fabian

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 10:49 AM

The SESB 2.0 und 3.0 is the formerly WIVU.

This is now the ETCBC, which is available since over a year in the Accordance Store.
https://www.accordan...s/?pid=MT-ETCBC

Grüsse

Fabian

Edited by Fabian, 11 January 2019 - 10:55 AM.

Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#18 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:21 PM

Will Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB) Aramaic and Hebrew Morphology be available soon? Thank you. 

 

Hi Mario,

Accordance tagged their "BHS with Apparatus and tagging" with the Groves-Wheeler Westminster Hebrew Morphology 4.14, not with the SESB tagging, which includes German glosses, and which is different at times and sometimes to be preferred. A while ago I posted this,

"A brilliant example is the one Dr. Holmstedt mentioned at https://www.accordan...xes/#entry84084- "I would take חשׁבי מחשׁבת in Exod 35.[3]5 as a participle bound to its complement, but the Westminster tagging takes חושׁב as a noun, not a participle." The SESB BHS tagging is, "Qal, participle . . . " at
https://www.accordan...-w4/#entry84121

Fabian is correct, that the SESB tagging is only available in Accordance in ETCBC. Some of these tags may have been updated since SESB 2.0 and 3.0.

Regards,

Michel


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