include accents / cantillation marks in results

[Michel Gilbert]

Good morning,

 

I agree with Dr. Holmstedt, and I'm glad he had or took the time to weigh in.

When you learn a new language, you often speak with an accent. In the same way, when you learn biblical Hebrew you can learn to speak with the accents. But, as you gain fluency you speak less and less with an accent/the accents. That is why, even regarding the te'amim, I think it is more important for Accordance to spend development time on allowing us to toggle them off.

Very enjoyable reading with my morning coffee. Now to one of the million jobs on the homestead.

Regards,

Michel

[Gedalya]

Prof H,

I misunderstood your initial remarks about "authoritative" and I agree with what you wrote.  Applying the word "authoritative" is a religious decision not a scholarly one.

I had thought that you were saying that the study of the MT and the te'amim was not a scholarly endeavor. So my examples were of scholarly research.

 

On the other hand, I would still argue that modern critical bible scholarship has much to learn from the NJPS translation and that it is not just directed as you wrote to a Jewish audience.   Accordance has done a great service by bringing ancient, medieval and modern Jewish commentaries and the contributions of the Masoretes to the attention of the non Jewish readers.  

[Robert Holmstedt]

Gordon,

 

I have learned much from the JPS and NJPS, no doubt. I simply read it with a filter about its assumptions.

[A. Smith]

We pay attention to the te'amim in our syntax tagging, but don't consider it authoritative.

 

And therein lies the problem, in my opinion, of placing much emphasis (including Accordance time/resources) on this material -- it is a much later, medieval Jewish layer of analysis of the much older Hebrew text. It should never be taken as authoritative in scholarship or, in my opinion, devotional reading (except by someone who also considers the rest of medieval Jewish theology to be part of his authoritative tradition).

 

To make an analogy, who else would consider Luther's NT commentaries authoritative and worth the resources to add to Accordance? Only a subset of Lutherans, I'm guessing.

Calvin's commentaries, though . . . 

[Robert Holmstedt]

I live in the region of Niagara that is the home to innumerable Dutch Reformed, so part of me was just waiting for someone to mention Calvin...

[MattChristianOT]

Prof H,

I misunderstood your initial remarks about "authoritative" and I agree with what you wrote.  Applying the word "authoritative" is a religious decision not a scholarly one.

I had thought that you were saying that the study of the MT and the te'amim was not a scholarly endeavor. So my examples were of scholarly research.

 

On the other hand, I would still argue that modern critical bible scholarship has much to learn from the NJPS translation and that it is not just directed as you wrote to a Jewish audience.   Accordance has done a great service by bringing ancient, medieval and modern Jewish commentaries and the contributions of the Masoretes to the attention of the non Jewish readers.  

If we really want to go down this road we would do well to remember the work of the Karites first. Much of their work would be advantageous before going to Medieval commentary as they were right at the start of that era.

[Brian K. Mitchell]

[Note: I'm just thinking out loud here as a scholar, folks, not as an official Accordance representative. I'm curious if this feature would be useful enough to appeal to a wide range of users. After all, of what use are these markers if pulled out of context? I'd think that would be particularly true of those used in Hebrew poetry, where the cadence in so very important.]

 

Dr. Timothy Jenney,

 

 

I hope this particular discussion isn’t over, yet.

 

I personally would be thrilled if your suggestions were implemented. I know of people who use Accordance Bible Software for the purpose locating trope/cantillation patterns as well as making resources for teaching children and adults to lein/chant the Torah.

 

Currently, at least as far as I am aware, Accordance Bible Software is the only easily available software program that allows one to search on trope patterns in Tanach.

 

Books worth mentioning:

Chanting the Hebrew Bible, Second, Expanded Edition: The Art of Cantillation

 

and

The Art of Torah Cantillation: A Step-by-Step Guide to Chanting Torah

 

Grace and Peace,

                           Brian

 

 

[Fabian]

Something like this?

 

 

Hebrew Cantillations Cantilation marks guided Hebrew worshippers as they chanted the biblical text. For modern readers, they help identify major breaks in the text. Logos lets you quickly identify those marks and see how they influence the division of the text.

 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

 

For Greek:

 

Greek Accents and Syllables Now you can search the New Testament based on accent marks and their positions. Need to find everywhere a Greek word includes a circumflex accent? Find results in a single search. Edited November 4, 2018 by Fabian