Pastor going iPad only?

[Garye]

Hi all,

 

I’m a full time pastor, have been in accordance for 15 or so years. Sadly, not a pro level user, but I have plenty of resources built up and interact with the Greek day by day.

 

With limited finances and kids needing devices, and the release of the new iPad Pro with USB c, I’m considering selling my MB pro and going with iPad pro as my sole device. I already use my iPad 10.5 as my day to day device, but heavy prep work is still on the mb.

 

Specific question for here is, would you cope with accordance for iOS as your only version? What functionality would you lose you couldn’t cope without?

 

I’m new here, so feel free to point me to any threads I’ve missed in search.

 

Thanks!

[ukfraser]

Welcome to the forum!

 

I use the ipad daily and virtually exclusively and havent noticed any difference using accordance on either my ipad 2 or ipad pro. It works great on either.

 

The main things i miss are the analytics which you dont get on ios. Search works and thats it, none of the really great analytics is available.

Also accordance maps and accordance timelines are not on ios but the excellent holman atlas is now available.

If you use papers or stacks, again not on Ios.

If you use greek diagramming, not available on ios.

 

The way you work is also very limited.

You can have your bible open and a second text or a commentary and thats it. Its great to switch versions.

You do get interlinear and all the tagging so can open your lexicon from the text.

 

The greatest restiction is with dictionaries, lexicons, atlas or other resource, only one can be opened at a time and there is no easy way to switch resources. For example:

I like having a commentary open, but if i want to look at another commentary, its a pain to open, go to library, find it then open it and then find the passage again.

If you want to open a dictionary or an atlas, you have to go to the library open it...

if you want to open a lexicon to explore other words that come to you you will have to go to the library to open it...

I dont find recently opened list useful.

 

Its a bit like the old hard copy days, the advantage is your library is in your hand and an ipad is so so so easy to hold and read that for me, the benefits far out way the restrictions. And who knows, one day we will get an improved interface.

 

I do all my sermon prep on the ipad, i just use the ios notes with accordance.

 

Because i prepare the service for projection (liturgy, hymns and songs, prayers and sermon slides) i couldnt be 100% ipad, we dont have a projection team and i need it to be simple so any one in the congregation can step in. When i come to prepare the service for projection, i open up my mbp and open apple notes and paste into word to format for projection as a pdf. I also have the pdf on my ipad and change the slides with my foot switch when leading the service so i can see whats on the next slide before i change it for the congregation with a zapper.

 

If i need analytics then i have my mbp, but im not using it as much coz the ipad is so much more convenient to use, hold and its always on an in easy reach.

 

What are the main features you use for heavy prep? You might want to try doing heavy prep on your ipad and see what you are missing and can you live without it? You will have to change the way you currently work. But i find its possible.

Edited November 2, 2018 by ukfraser

[ukfraser]

Seeing another thread on the forum reminded me that search is also limited on ios to the resource you have open or what is in the main window only if you are looking at two windows in text view. No search all or search a particular section of your library.

 

Just need to modify your workflow and get used to a lot more clicking but its still a lot quicker than using a paper library.

 

;o)

Edited November 2, 2018 by ukfraser

[Garye]

Thanks for these replies Fraser, very detailed and helpful. Given what you’ve said I would mainly feel the loss of easy analytics (not prominent on a week by week basis, but still important to me). I don’t use disgramming in accordance: still by hand. Otherwise it just sounds like workflow/convenience losses which, given finances and the simplicity of one device, I may be prepared to live with.

 

Part of the impetus is the new iPad with USB c, which supports an external display (not just mirrored. Daughter would get this iPad). I read somewhere the use of external display would be dictated by the makers of the apps. So maybe this could be something Accordance could look at (allowing two screens of real estate).

 

I guess a solid 2-3 week trial is in order...

 

Thanks again, any other responses welcome!

[ukfraser]

Have you thought about a surface go? Full windows so full accordance on a tablet and a budget option?

 

Ios will be limited compared to the full os for the forseeable future.

Accordance focus is clearly on the main product and it feels that they are also getting the android up to the ios standard but im hoping that soon, the ios will get the major facelift it deserves and has been in need of for a few years so that the more suspect initial design descisions are rectified. a few simple things would greatly enhance its usability and much of the coding has already been implemented, just not consistently.

 

But i fear that analytics and research and other powerful accordance features like the new text browser will be limited by the operating system and not make it to the ipad until Apple give us a surface go equivalent tablet.

 

But let us know how your two to three week trial goes.

Edited November 3, 2018 by ukfraser

[Rich]

The new iPad Pro processor is faster than most of the recent MacBook & MacBook Pro offerings... it can come with 1TB of storage... you can get it with a near 13" screen...  it has a USB-C port for all kinds of hardware additions and external display (pair it with a nice dock that are sure to be coming).  It's staged to be a laptop-replacement but is missing just a couple things, and almost all of those are in software/OS that can be fixed — for me most primarily is lack of easy mouse / keyboard integration in iOS, although keyboard is mostly there now.  The mouse wouldn't be difficult (I use a mouse with an iPad simulator all the time with no issue), but it would still be operating on a primarily touch based model, but would probably be enough for most uses.  Multitasking on an iPad still is a shell of MacOS, but honestly, even on Mac, I've often started using full screen mode or two-up with only two apps up on the screen at a time to maintain focus, all supportable by iOS now — in other words, iOS multitasking is probably good enough.

 

Unfortunately, the biggest problem is the apps themselves.  They generally are built for an outdated notion of a limited platform - limited computing power, screen size, interaction model, focused on simplicity. Most are built to run on iPhone and iPad and don't take full advantage of the iPad's qualities.  I'm definitely not picking on Accordance here, because the choice is definitely a financial / focus one and it would take significant effort, but the iPad hardware certainly is capable of hosting a fully-featured Accordance (as demonstrated by the fully functional Photoshop they just demo'ed).  Honestly, Apple has also chosen not to port some of its titles over (YET!) that I would love to use on iPad (MainStage for worship services, Xcode for work). A few of those titles transition to iPad and I might give up my MacBook Pro (although not my iMac! at least not yet...)

[R. Mansfield]

I will be very interested to see how apps take advantage of the extended desktop capability of the new iPad Pro. If Apple really wants to make the iPad a replacement for traditional platforms, they have to be able to adapt to desktop situations with larger monitors. 

[ukfraser]

If Apple really wants to make the iPad a replacement for traditional platforms,

 

I got very mixed messages. Air was really beefed up. the mac mini has really come to the fore for the first time, its Always been understated in the past.

 

Yes the ipad pro is powerful, but apple are still very focussed on the full os machines and the mini was promoted as something you can have your own keyboard and monitor and very much a ceative tool...

Edited November 4, 2018 by ukfraser

[R. Mansfield]

I think Apple definitely sends a mixed message between macOS and iOS. I still believe their goal is to eventually replace macOS with iOS but there’s still a lot to be done. Nevertheless, this is definitely one of the steps on way to making iOS a full-fledged desktop replacement, but there’s still more that would have to be done. 

 

You’ll remember that in the old days, there was a lot of rivalry between the Apple II and Mac teams--definitely a mixed message back then. . The Mac was released in 1984, but Apple still sold the Apple II until 1992 (so much for “Apple II Forever”). It’s more complicated today because macOS is much more entrenched as a standard than the Apple II ever could be. 

 

The trajectory is clear, though, even if slow. 

[ukfraser]

As a punter, life would be so much easier if the ipad ran the full os like windows have done with their surface goso i could run everything exactly the same way i do on my mbp.

 

;o)

Edited November 5, 2018 by ukfraser

[A. Smith]

I use an iPad Pro for preaching. No problem. But I would never depend on Accordance's iOS app as my main bible study software. It's far too limited. I think the iPad app is pitifully inadequate. It is embarrassing to have a tablet with more power than some laptops, and yet not be able to use half the functions of what Accordance ought to do, including something as simple as viewing more than two texts. It's very frustrating. 

[Mark Allison]

I think the iPad app is pitifully inadequate.

 

I'm pretty sure the primary limitation is iOS. There are no apps from any developer (that I'm aware of—including Apple) that are as powerful in mobile as they are on the desktop.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Mark Allison

[A. Smith]

I'm pretty sure the primary limitation is iOS. There are no apps from any developer (that I'm aware of—including Apple) that are as powerful in mobile as they are on the desktop.

Is it not possible to create a separate iPad app that has more features to take advantage of the greater screen real estate? I'm not a developer nor the son of a developer, but I do know there are some apps that only work for one or the other. It seems there has to be some solution that would allow greater functionality. At the very least, logos allows you to hold several texts open in several virtual windows. That's a step in the right direction, at least. And I say that as a guy who really does not like the logos app overall. 

[JayDee]

iOS11 was a good step for iPad.. the new power of the iPad Pro 2018 is desperately awaiting a way more powerful OS - hopefully coming with iOS13 next year - UBS-C is just waiting for Flashdrive/Harddrive support....

 

Seeing the real Photoshop in the Apple presentation handling a 3GB file with ease is a good look in the future of what the iPad should or will become in the near future... would be so sad if iOS wouldn't go "Pro" next year... A lot of the first reviews do say the same... they didn't praise the iPad for the software support which is holding the hardware way down.

 

So I hope iOS13 in 2019 will be a mayor leap forward for the iPad becoming a real Pro-tool and not anymore a better youtube-display.

[Rich]

I'm pretty sure the primary limitation is iOS. There are no apps from any developer (that I'm aware of—including Apple) that are as powerful in mobile as they are on the desktop.

 

Adobe demo'ed a "full" version of Photoshop for iPad (no iPhone) at the recent event.  While in the past (pre-iPad Pro), I would say hardware was a limiting factor, but considering that Apple released two mobile computers last week, and the faster one was the iPad Pro by far (the iPad Pro is benchmarking significantly faster than the new MacBook Air), that's definitely not the case anymore.  

 

As a developer on both Mac and iOS (although much more experience over the last 5+ years on iOS), there is really nothing stopping a developer from building full fledged apps except for maybe the interaction model (touch / pencil) in iOS (and the much better but still weak multitasking support).  My previous company actually had a full-blown developer's diffing tool (Kaleidoscope for Mac and iPad) that was very close to feature parity between the two — and that wasn't a simple app (image diffing, text diffing, etc).  The biggest limitation was that there are no other significant developer tools on iOS, but it has to start somewhere.

 

I believe the real reason is focus and target market.  The number of people running more powerful iPads is certainly a smaller market, and there is a lot of historical friction from the hardware disparity.  Honestly though, I think the biggest issue is it is difficult for any business considering building an iOS app to target these new powerful devices and fully take advantage of the screen size / hardware without thinking about the much more lucrative iPhone market in the same breath.  Therefore, I think most often those contemplating the iOS market end up building limited applications so they can target both platforms at the same time at the expense of highly productive iPad apps.  I think this will change slowly with time as the target market for powerful iPads grows and iOS continues to evolve.  Apple provides a lot of support and encouragement to make apps "universal" — but I think at this point, this is actually holding the iPad back.

[Garye]

Hi all, have been on the road, glad to see all this wisdom. Some of you are much more techy than me - some of the things you mention I have no idea/interest in. Although I spend lots of time on my devices, in the end I’m a low powered user: email, church management in browser, word processing, some projection stuff but I have team members who do most of this. It really is just accordance. Hmmm.

 

If any accordance folk read this it would be good to know if they have plans, even long term, to beef up the iOS app. Anyone?

[Helen Brown]

We certainly have development plans but adapting all the features of Accordance to a touch interface is a long and massive project.

[Solly]

Hmm, could we just bypass the touch interface method and go directly to mind meld mode?

 

Seriously though, I do appreciate work being done to enable Accordance on multiple platforms, especially given that the platforms are themselves moving targets.

 

Thanks,

 

Joseph

[ukfraser]

And ios version is free and supports older versions and hardware (i am still nursing my 4s which is still limping along on ios 9).

[Andrew G]

this review by The Verge of the ipad pro is trending on youtube right now.  people seem to be saying it's the best review so far.

 

New iPad Pro review: can it replace your laptop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LykS0TRSHLY

 

general thought seems to be that while the hardware is good, the limitations of ios and ones that apple puts on it makes it less than what it could truly be.  if it had macOS then it would be a different story.  but, of course, apple giving us what we want? we can dream...

[R. Mansfield]

this review by The Verge of the ipad pro is trending on youtube right now.  people seem to be saying it's the best review so far.

 

New iPad Pro review: can it replace your laptop?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LykS0TRSHLY

 

general thought seems to be that while the hardware is good, the limitations of ios and ones that apple puts on it makes it less than what it could truly be.  if it had macOS then it would be a different story.  but, of course, apple giving us what we want? we can dream...

 

That’s a really good video. 

 

I don’t believe Apple will ever give us a touchscreen Mac because iOS offers offers a clean break with legacy issues of macOS.

 

But I do believe iOS will continue to improve until it can finally make macOS unnecessary. Addition of an extended desktop and USB-C are significant improvements in this direction, as are the preview of professional apps like PhotoShop (although Affinity Photo already does a lot of what was demoed in PS). To borrow a biblical image, these are all “birth pangs” of the end for macOS. When you see Apple release Xcode and Final Cut Pro for iOS (the two prophets of the apocalypse), you know the end of macOS is at hand.

[ukfraser]

Im looking forward to the day when they show us a photo of rack after rack of ipads, similar to the one of mini macs they showed this time (even better one of iphones)!!!!!!

 

;o)

Edited November 6, 2018 by ukfraser

[Joe]

The problems with Accordance on iOS are not all tied to iOS. As Helen pointed out, porting over the codebase would be a massive feat. I've done programming (mostly for the web and network admin type stuff) and can appreciate this daunting task.

 

But, Instead of focussing on stuff I don't use, Papers, I'd rather them focus on bringing more features to iOS. Of course since MY experience and use of accordance is all that matters, I want them to listen to MY feedback. Some sarcasm is intended.
 

[Mark Allison]

I can promise you that feature parity is really important to us. I can't promise when we'll get there.

[Michael J. Bolesta]

I can promise you that feature parity is really important to us. I can't promise when we'll get there.